14 "A" or 16 "B", which one is more competitive?

Mark H said:

I think what he was saying, or the main thing I took him to be saying was, the better pitchers you face in high school (the ones you need to step up your game to beat) are going to be A or gold pitchers. Everyone is going to hit the lesser pitchers. To hit the A and gold pitchers, you need to be facing them as much as possible in the summer.

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It's one thing to face that A or Gold level pitcher on her HS team with a questionable defense and mediocre offense support her. Now your weak HS team should try to face her in the summer when she is surrounded by A level defenders and hitters?? I'll grant you that you need to face the best to get better. But I would argue that until you are competitive against the good, taking on the great is probably of little value to you and of no value to the great. If the top 10 teams of 100 only get to play ~60 games a summer, they don't have time to play all 90 other teams to help those other teams get better.

I was made aware of an outstate summer ball 18B league that almost folded this summer. The fear was that the ACE pitcher who dominated their HS conference would play summer ball there and quite frankly getting it handed to you twice a year in HS was enough for some of the teams, they wanted to just play ball in the summer and have fun. When the ACE pitcher committed to leaving for the metro to play in an A league the teams that were holding back all signed up to play.

The other option would have been to work hard and learn to hit that ace pitcher.

Here in Texas, a lot of my kids teammates/classmates have deep roots in the community and community pride and loyalty is strong. Probably in places like AZ and California where a lot of people have just moved into the areas, that is not the same. And the cases where the h/s coaches are not helpful and are even unhealthy for the girls, I can completely understand pass it up. But our feeling was that h/s coaches are temporary, the school and community are not, and kids have to learn to deal with maybe not the best coaches, bosses, teachers, etc. so work hard, learn to say 'yes sir- i got it' and keep going.

When these kids (the kids I coach) started playing back in t-ball (6u), coach pitch (8u) and up, we would take them to the high school to see how the 'big girls' do it. And again our high school has been strong in softball, the previous head coach had played college ball and was an excellent game day tactics kind of coach. While we never made it that far into the playoffs, we usually won out of district, usually going about 3 levels in. (6 or so being state)

And regardless of what people think, at those young ages, playing in college at any level was not on my mind, I just wanted to get them to the point that they would look as good or better than the girls I took them to see. Regarding playing in college, at the D1 level, to date, no girls from our school(s) has succeeded, regarding pitching, no girls from our school has succeeded at any collegiate level, juco, d3, d2, d1, naia. There are a couple of girls (position players) currently playing in college, but they have a long way to go.

So for that long story, I figured that whatever was done before wasnt enough, so I pushed these girls to step up as early as possible, like I said from the 8th grade level to play 18u. Face the best early, work hard to improve, find the best instructors, figure it out, dont worry about wins early out, worry about improving. What the heck, its only a game.

SnocatzDad said:

The fear was that the ACE pitcher who dominated their HS conference would play summer ball there and quite frankly getting it handed to you twice a year in HS was enough for some of the teams, they wanted to just play ball in the summer and have fun. When the ACE pitcher committed to leaving for the metro to play in an A league the teams that were holding back all signed up to play.

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Snocatz, dont you think that says a lot about that area - and you dont have to play all 90 teams , only the best of them. Find the best tournaments, and battle, trust me, it really works. The kids, the fighters in them, will improve. Get a hit off 'superstar' and it gets infectious - the rest of the girls will want to do it.

You have seen several of your girls sign now with one at a D1 with a recent WCWS appearance. Quite an accomplishment starting from where you did in terms of geography, tradition and awareness of the possibilities.

Not sure that just facing a pitcher in a few at bats helps you hit her, the groundwork must be laid before you step up to the plate. But if they are getting the needed coaching and training too, then it would be a good thing.

When it comes to pitchers, girls tend to make dramatic improvements in speed and ball movement between 12U and 14U, but not that much difference after that. A good 14U pitcher may throw 55-58, 16U 58-60+, 60 is about avg for college level too. If that 14U has been coached with good control and spin rate, there just isnt that much difference there. This is one reason a very good 14U team can compete with and beat even 18U teams. The girls are essentially full grown, they will fill out a little more and get more muscular, faster, and skilled as they get older, but they are essentially grown at 14, heck some are at 12.

I think thats one of the great things about 14U, the girls are maturing and becoming real athletes, but they still have adorable cuteness and innocence.

DonnieS said:

Snocatz, dont you think that says a lot about that area - and you dont have to play all 90 teams , only the best of them. Find the best tournaments, and battle, trust me, it really works. The kids, the fighters in them, will improve. Get a hit off 'superstar' and it gets infectious - the rest of the girls will want to do it.

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Yes it says alot about the area. They have extremely small schools and regularly just have to take who shows up. That doesn't stop them from producing the occasional star.

I think you missed my point. Of course if your top 10 teams you should play the other top ten teams to get better. What value does that top 10 team get from playing one of the bottom 10 teams? If you have a group of eigth graders playing 18UA, I'm not denying there might be something in it for them even if they fail most of the time, but what would the best teams get from playing your 8th graders? IS that going to make them better? Aren't you essentially disrespecting those teams by putting your team at a level they don't belong at? Maybe your 8th graders were comparable and competitive, I don't know. I just know that isn't a good solution for most of the 8th graders I see.

The rule was imposed to make the better girls play in HS not the other way around. Most if not all major college players are recruited at showcase tournaments not hign school events. With that said I would play against the highest competition I could find. Since you have two teams maybe you could combine them to form one until your high school restrictions are satisfied and then separate into your two original teams.

As far as playing 18u when you are 14 that is not going to happen at a competitive level. Most of the girls on our competitive team could have started for the local high school when they were 12 so any comment about girls being behind sounds like rec talk to me. If the coach wants to be involved then offer the HS field for competitive teams in the area to use. This benefits the girls and the school.

rowdy said:

Since you have two teams maybe you could combine them to form one until your high school restrictions are satisfied and then separate into your two original teams. .

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Yeah I've seen that done. Good point. I've also seen a team put together just for the high school season of girls one year before high school out of a half dozen or more teams.

mudbug said:

Not sure that just facing a pitcher in a few at bats helps you hit her, the groundwork must be laid before you step up to the plate. But if they are getting the needed coaching and training too, then it would be a good thing.

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Absolutely. I'd go stir crazy coaching a bunch of girls who couldn't hit good pitching. Everyone who wanted to work hard WOULD be a a LOT better before the next season and the ones who didn't work hard would be passed by those who did. I'd suggest to this poster to find an instructor you trust or pick almost ANY guru's program and implement it violently and consistently and they will be much better. Englishbey, Yeager, Right View or Epstein probably in that order. ANY of them and plenty of others would be an improvement over what I hear described.