Wrists? Bat drag? Understanding a high end swing

[Crystal Brown]

What I think is that the demonstration misses the importance of the rear upper arm and the preparation to throw ... along with the timing of the preparation to throw. Notice how he demos what he believes he wants to happen ... the upper arm and rear elbow basically remain fixated against his side, and he is "all hands". Not what I'm looking for personally. I do like his point about unhinging into impact ... there is certainly a lot of power in that.

To be fair, this segment in the lesson was about hands. The unhinging of the wrist at impact was something my daughter lacked.

 

[NVfishing]

Re-posting earlier post with a different host for the GIF that folks mentioned they could not view.

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I believe I understand what you mean.

Just to clarify ... this person here has "barrel awareness", yet their mental image is to Level-And-Swing ('level' meaning to orientate the bat such that it will be on plane with the ball). In a sense, they "find the ball" and then "swing" ... as opposed to "finding the ball as you swing".

This is different than having a sense of barrel awareness with a Level-As-You-Swing approach.

Notice the difference in the barrel arc between the above swing and the swing below. Someone watching the movement of the barrel tip should be able to detect what many refer to as 'bat drag' well before what is generally being used as an indicator for 'bat drag'.

That's my DD's swing

 

[Lickety Split]

Re-posting earlier post with a different host for the GIF that folks mentioned they could not view.






I believe I understand what you mean.

Just to clarify ... this person here has "barrel awareness", yet their mental image is to Level-And-Swing ('level' meaning to orientate the bat such that it will be on plane with the ball). In a sense, they "find the ball" and then "swing" ... as opposed to "finding the ball as you swing".

This is different than having a sense of barrel awareness with a Level-As-You-Swing approach.

Notice the difference in the barrel arc between the above swing and the swing below. Someone watching the movement of the barrel tip should be able to detect what many refer to as 'bat drag' well before what is generally being used as an indicator for 'bat drag'.

What a difference, thanks this is a great comparison. What do yo think the bottom batter is thinking vs the top batter at the top of the load? The hand action of the bottom batter is light years ahead of the top batter. Is it as simple as reading the pitch and quickly squaring up the bat to that pitch location?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

What a difference, thanks this is a great comparison. What do yo think the bottom batter is thinking vs the top batter at the top of the load? The hand action of the bottom batter is light years ahead of the top batter. Is it as simple as reading the pitch and quickly squaring up the bat to that pitch location?

Of course I have no idea what either is thinking … but here are some thoughts in-line with the thread.

The player on the top may be thinking … “I want to get my bat on plane with the pitch early/first”. He likely believes that he needs to get the barrel on plane prematurely. This has his barrel flattening behind his head. His thought process then continues … “and then I’ll fling/flail the barrel into impact”. This has him whipping the barrel from a semi-advantaged orientation that can produce a good deal of power.

Against weak pitching, the player on the top can receive positive feedback. He will drive the ball well enough times to keep positively re-enforcing his swing mechanics. When he makes contact he may drive the ball farther than anyone else on his team. Hence the positive re-enforcement. Unfortunately for him, his swing will not scale as he faces better pitching, and as his team advances towards higher levels of competition he will struggle ... at first likely believing that he is in a slump of some sort. He is embedding a mechanic that will escort him out of the game prematurely if he doesn’t correct the issue.

Said differently … level then fling.

The player on the bottom is reading the pitch as he initially goes forward. He may be thinking … “find this GD ball” … alternatively he may be thinking “I’m going to throw my barrel through that GD ball” … and he has a swing mentality that goes along the line of …. “I’m going to work my barrel to the ball”.

Said differently … his bat will find the ball as he swings.

 

[Lickety Split]

Of course I have no idea what either is thinking … but here are some thoughts in-line with the thread.

The player on the top may be thinking … “I want to get my bat on plane with the pitch early/first”. He likely believes that he needs to get the barrel on plane prematurely. This has his barrel flattening behind his head. His through process then continues … “and then I’ll fling/flail the barrel into impact”. This has him whipping the barrel from a semi-advantaged orientation that can produce a good deal of power.

Against weak pitching, the player on the top can receive positive feedback. He will drive the ball well enough times to keep positively re-enforcing his swing mechanics. When he makes contact he may drive the ball farther than anyone else on his team. Hence the positive re-enforcement. Unfortunately for him, his swing will not scale as he faces better pitching and his team advances towards higher levels of competition. He is embedding a mechanic that will escort him out of the game prematurely if he doesn’t correct the issue.

Said differently … level then fling.

The player on the bottom is reading the pitch as he initially goes forward. He may be thinking … “find this GD ball” … alternatively he may be thinking “I’m going to throw my barrel through that GD ball” … and he has a swing mentality that goes along the line of …. “I’m going to work my barrel to the ball”.

Said differently … his bat will find the ball as he swings.

Is it safe to say if you level then fling, you are initiating bat drag? Would you agree part of the challenge of not creating bat drag is to NOT hold the swing back? But to have that aggressive go attitude in the swing?

Thanks again for your contribution.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Is it safe to say if you level then fling, you are initiating bat drag? Would you agree part of the challenge of not creating bat drag is to NOT hold the swing back? But to have that aggressive go attitude in the swing?

Thanks again for your contribution.

Someone with a "level then fling" approach, like we see with the kid above, will have a swing that many will refer to as "bat drag". Let me ask you though ... while most would classify this kid's swing as "bat drag", is he truly dragging the bat? Is his lowering of the barrel during the "read of the pitch" truly a "drag" of the barrel? IMO it is not. However, what he is doing is circumventing the "working of the barrel", and that is what generally leads to what many classify as "bat drag" ... mainly because it leads to the same downstream indicator.

Part of the challenge is to realize that you do NOT need to prematurely level the barrel to the ball. You need to show a kid how working the barrel to the ball actually provides significant barrel speed. The pure act of working the barrel to the ball provides barrel speed. For whatever reason, this is news for many kids that don't work the barrel to the ball. They look at me with new found awareness when they see that they can initiate their swing from what I will call the universal launch position ... for no other reason than that is what Epstein referred to it as.

You see ... this cheat that these youth hitters make ... this cheat of first flattening the barrel ... doesn't need to be made ... and you as their instructor are responsible for teaching them that.

 

[Eric F]

]I honestly don't understand why folks have an issue with what they call dbsf. Have cured the issue many many many times simply by using this phrase. Perhaps it is the way I deliver the message to the player. It isn't something that generally takes long to get past.[/B]

...

I'm not speaking of young players that lack body awareness or lack body control. That's an entirely different issue. Heck, I'll even see HS-age JV kids that can't seem to move their bodies athletically ... there are kids that simply have a difficult time moving their body efficiently. Those kids are special ... and truth be told, I have a lot of fun working with them as well. That said, if you are working with a kid that has a decent sense of body awareness and body control, then correcting an issue such as what is termed dbsf shouldn't be a big deal ... IMO anyway.

You have hit squarely upon the core issue for many of us, and this probably a big part of why some people get a little ruffled when you talk about how fixing an issue like DBSF is easy. Teaching kids who have a decent sense of body awareness (older, experienced players), getting them to feel what you describe is going to connect the dots for them a lot quicker. Fixing that same issue with a young hitter who is still trying to figure out how their body works is a much bigger challenge. MUCH bigger.

Said differently … level then fling.

Said differently...DBSF.

 

[NVfishing]

The two gif images have the ball in different locations. One is in the top of the zone and one is low. How different would that mlb swing look at a high pitch?

 

[rdbass]

The two gif images have the ball in different locations. One is in the top of the zone and one is low. How different would that mlb swing look at a high pitch?

Same....just on the high pitch MLB player (Miggy) has a tighter /less arc 'turn the barrel to the ball'.

 

[dadofadirtlover]

You have hit squarely upon the core issue for many of us, and this probably a big part of why some people get a little ruffled when you talk about how fixing an issue like DBSF is easy. Teaching kids who have a decent sense of body awareness (older, experienced players), getting them to feel what you describe is going to connect the dots for them a lot quicker. Fixing that same issue with a young hitter who is still trying to figure out how their body works is a much bigger challenge. MUCH bigger.



Said differently...DBSF.

My thoughts exactly when I read this. FFS, would you say that a lack of body awareness is the first thing to address with DBSF? In other words, is it putting the cart before the horse to try to fix DBSF without addressing body awareness first? I've read multiple times how you've had the easiest time addressing this in your players, but this is the first time I've seen you mention a distinction in young players specifically. Additionally, what age are you considering young players? The context will help us better understand the position you have on this.