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Aug 21, 2008
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Could you expand upon that thought. Why wouldn’t they compliment each other well if the release is similar and the speed is 10-12 mph different? Thanks


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Well, I try to keep the change up low. In fact, I tell my pitchers that I want them to bounce it on the plate. They should throw it for a ball, not a strike. If they throw it for a called strike by the ump, then ok you got lucky. But I want my change to be down low (usually away instead of inside).

When do we throw a change? It's when we're calculating and betting the hitter is going to swing. This is the cat and mouse part of it. So If I'm betting he's going to swing, I don't want the ball where he can hit it. Which means, they are first fooled by the speed difference. But then the ball down low, as low as possible means the hitter is now going to have a very awkward swing. Even if they do hit the ball, it's not likely to be very solid considering the pitch's speed and location. However, the higher the change up, the easier it is for the hitter to still make better contact. Even being off balance on his/her front foot due to the speed difference, if they can hold their hands back enough, a change up that hangs too long can be punched over the shortstop's head. But, if the pitch is low, that secondary movement the hitter needs to do just to make contact isn't going to result in a solid hit.

If anyone tries telling you "if you throw it for a ball they won't swing at it" simply doesn't know what they're talking about. Anyone who's ever played fastpitch will tell you that we've all looked like absolute fools swinging at change ups, including ones that are no where near the strike zone. Is there a such thing as a "change rise" and can it get someone out? Of course. Situationally any pitch can get anyone out. But, I play the percentages and I always go back to this: in 2024 with the bats and balls used today, a pop fly is dangerous. Even by a 12 yr old, 90 lbs slapper can hit a ball 250' these days. All she's gotta do is get the ball in the air, and as I said with the bats and balls of today there's a decent shot to take it yard.

Percentage wise, a change up that hangs, floats or is just simply high has a better chance of being hit well than a change that is kept as low as possible. If you are betting the hitter is going to swing, which pitch has the better chance to get someone out?

This is also starts to go into the topic of picking pitches. Picking the pitcher is almost the only way anyone is going to step in the box and hit an 88 mph Adam Folkard riseball. The ability to pick pitchers is an art form. I know guys who keep notebooks in their bags, listing all the top pitchers. They write down their tendencies like which pitches they tend to throw in certain counts or situations. And they'll write down their pick they have on said pitcher. The pitcher may hold their glove different on one pitch vs. another, the hand can be buried further into the glove on a change up, etc. These are things the guys keep in their notebooks which are guarded like Ft. Knox. They will not share their info. But a coach who can pick the change up in particular is absolutely massive. That not only helps the hitter to know what's coming but, it can really mess with the pitcher's head. Pitchers are usually pretty good at picking other pitchers.
 
May 15, 2008
1,960
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Cape Cod Mass.
Could you expand upon that thought. Why wouldn’t they compliment each other well if the release is similar and the speed is 10-12 mph different? Thanks


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Studies have shown that when the brain overestimates the speed of the pitch (change up) the hitter will swing over the ball, so having a trajectory where the ball floats or stays up works against this. And vice versa when the brain underestimates the speed of the pitch the hitter will swing under the ball. That's why the bullet spin fastball works, it stays up.
 
Aug 21, 2008
2,393
113
I am typing this part here after I had initially typed out a paragraph that I think I'd have regretted had I sent it out. Basically I was going to list some pitchers who will be on TV this week with whom I've worked with either casually or intensely. There's also a few you'll see on TV that I didn't work with very much but have maybe caught a bullpen for. So initially I was going to name the names of these ladies so when you see them on TV and they show a bullet spin in the slo mo replay, you could say to yourself "Bill said that's not really bullet spin". I still maintain there is something that happens, some kind of trick with cameras similar to how car wheels appear to go in reverse on TV/movies that makes this illusion happen. But I was going to list a whole bunch of names of people but then realized that would probably come off the wrong way and seem like I'm "name dropping" for some kind of ego kick.

Now to be fair, using a ball with a line drawn or taped around it, nobody would have straight backspin where the line would be 6/12 rotation. I've only known a couple people ever who had 100% genuine backspin, where the line would be perfectly straight up/down. I can promise you all this, Jordy Bahl's riseball is not bullet spin no matter what the camera shows. But, you'll have to wait another year to see her's on TV again. (although to anyone interested: her rehab is going very very well apparently and she says she's ahead of schedule).

Anyway, I don't know why this happens but, I can list A LOT of pitchers in the NCAA post season tournament who's riseballs are not bulletspin, regardless of what you see on TV. And I'll say that until I die.
 
Sep 15, 2015
115
43
I slowed it down even more using the YouTube settings and that's not what I see, there is a slight up and towards the hitter tilt to the spin axis and I think that camouflages the fact that it's still mostly bullet spin.

Maybe so, but my point is that the camera angle gives the same pitch a different look. The view from the catcher has more backspin appearance than the view from centerfield. I think Bill is making a similar point. Anyone who has caught college pitchers will tell you that many have backspin (even very close to straight backspin), yet various camera angles show something different. The explanation, I think, is that all pitchers have some degree of gyro spin and certain camera angles exacerbate the appearance of that spin.


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Jun 6, 2016
2,764
113
Chicago
There isn't enough time. MLB pitchers throw into their 30s. Softball pitchers are done by 22.

And this is why Cat remained a great pitcher into her late 30s when she often didn't throw much above 60. She was able to spend years working her movement/off-speed pitches. She actually had time to really develop those pitches, so much so that she could throw a no-hitter against professionals without the velocity we're now used to.
 
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