Second base obstruction

[Proudmumof2]

Runner on first takes off on a hit. Second base does not have the ball (it is behind her in the outfield, she is facing first, and located halfway between first and second base), stands on the baseline. Runner runs into the baseman because she can't stop in time. Runner is called out for excessive force when she gets to third.

The rule book is a bit iffy on the ruling for this, ump said the runner should go around the baseman but that would have put her way outside the baseline. Rule also states if she would have tried to stop and still collided with the baseman, she would have been safe.

Can someone explain to me how that works. I would have thought second base was in the runners way and the other team would have been penalized. I know if my daughter, who is catcher, blocks the baseline or plate without the ball, she gets called for obstruction.

 

[Comp]

What rule set were you playing under?

 

[Proudmumof2]

ASA. I tried to find all the rules for it in my book but there seemed to be a lot of grey areas.

 

[djcarter1966]

The most important thing is was the 2B making a play on the ball, it's not clear from your description, if it is a base hit over 2B head then NO she can't stand in the baseline and 95+% of the time the only way the runner can bring notice to the fact is by running into her, if she makes a really wide turn to get around her (losing three or four steps) and is subsequently thrown out you will hear those wonderful words come out of the umpires mouth "well since there was no contact so I'm not calling obstruction, she is out"

Easiest way to remember it is the defense always has the first right to anywhere on the field if they are making a play on the ball, if they possess the ball they also have the right to the base path.

Now if they are not making a play on the ball and they don't have the ball the base runner has the right to the base path (which is where ever they are at and then a direct line to the base)

I'm guessing there might be some exceptions (there always is) but the scenario you are describing does not sound like one. The excessive force thing usually has to be something pretty blatant involving getting her hands or elbows up around the fielders head just bumping into her hard should not qualify but unfortunately that is a judgement call (and this is one that might depend on the rule set)

 

[Comp]

Under ASA rules there is no rule justification for calling an out for excessive force. The umpire could have ejected her and a substitute taken her place, but no out. Some other rule sets do allow for an out for malicious contact. Is a had to be there situation, did runner have time to miss the fielder or did she just plain run over her because she was there? Without seeing it, dont know.

 

[Proudmumof2]

Runner had no time to avoid her. She had her lead off when the pitcher released the ball, heard it hit the bat and took off. Only way a collision could have been avoided would have been if she could have jumped over her. Even running around her at that distance would have resulted in them colliding, just not as hard. Second base was not waiting for the ball, ball went from right field to short stop, to third base trying to get her out at third.

 

[djcarter1966]

So if base runner is going from first to second (in a straight line) and runs into the defensive player who is not making a play and does not have the ball that is obstruction. The excessive force thing is a whole different discussion.

 

[MTR]

So if base runner is going from first to second (in a straight line) and runs into the defensive player who is not making a play and does not have the ball that is obstruction. The excessive force thing is a whole different discussion.

It isn't really a discussion. You are not going to find any comments about excessive force in the ASA rule book

 

[PlayPerfect]

Sounds to me like excessive force was the totally wrong explanation, but my question is .."did the obstruction prevent her from being safe at 3rd?" if she stretched going to third assuming obstruction protected her, her assumption was obviously wrong. I'm not an umpire, but I believe she was only protected from 1st to second.

Umpires??? do you agree?

 

[Comp]

In the play posted she wasnt put out at 3rd, it said the umpire called her out for excessive force when she got to 3rd.

When obstructed, a runner cannot be put out between the 2 bases where obstructed. But, a runner is protected from being put out for as far as the umpire judges they would have reached absent the obstruction. Complete guessing game by the offense if they choose to go past the base they are protected to by rule. They have no idea what the umpire has judged to be the base the runner is protected to.