Push/Stride Length

[halskinner]

JJ, for many years SOME step style instructors have claimed that the 'Leapo and drag' pitching style was illegal because you are not allowed to 'Leap' as per the regulations. A good L and D pitcher does not leap UP because they are on a good forward lean before they start thedir leg drive forward. They get their center of body weight WELL ahead of their pivot point before pushing off..

The stride for a good leap and drag pitcher will not bring the stride foot ant higher foo the ground than if you had on a roller blade on that foot. The higher you bring the stride foot, the farther it must come down and the harder and more jarring the landing is.
L and D pitchers know this.

I will grant you that there are some steppers that come forward quickly and basically do the splits with thrier legs. They dont get their body on a good forward lean at push off or be on a good backwards lean at LFT. They stay standing tall all the way through the motions and L and D pitchers dont do that.


I am 57 yo. I have been involved it pitching since I was 5yo. Step style is just that, it is not L and D and never have the two been so confusing until this board.

 

[JJsqueeze]

Good so we want to minimize up down motion in the leap/push portion of the pitch and get all the power moving forward. I can work with that. thanks.

 

[halskinner]

"The pitcher may also step back (before the hands come together) and then forward to gain momentum in her pitching motion.

Anyway people..........Instead of focusing on Hal's consistent distraction attempts of my posts......Which are getting old..........Focus on the point....."

The point was, the pivot coming forward of the rubber before the stride foot. Surely you are not trying to convince people that the NFHS section you cited applies to the pivot foot. If that was the case, every HS pitcher could bring the pivot out 3 feet then the stride foot out farther.. We would have stride lengths of 10+ feet.

Bring the stride foot back and then forward, yup they do. Dont believe they allow it with the pivot foot though.

 

[javasource]

JJ,

BM and Hal offer some great advice. I find myself leaning towards BM more often as his responses are usually concise and to the point, whereas Hal is often guilty of the "shameless plug" and making an unqualified assumption (albeit often correct). Both obviously have experience and knowledge in the arena, and I usually read what they post. That said...

From another PC (that seldom posts), I think the terminology is important, and agree with the push and drag. Often do we explain something to a pitcher, and it gets misinterpreted, and worse yet, they practice the misinterpretation at home. Leap gets interpreted with up far too often... blah, blah, blah, but it is true.

Since the ball is going forward, so should our total effort. Keeping our body moving down the line toward the catcher alllws for the option of transferring it into the pitch, which good fundamentals should accomplish. With good front-side resistance, too...

 

[halskinner]

Java, Could I be more concise and to the point? Yeah, absolutely. However, there are parents that are new to this sport on this board. And, believe it or not, kids get on and read this board too.

Anything I write and everything I have EVER written is written so a 12-year-old should be able to understand at least 90% of it. The same advice I give to a 12 year old, can also be used by a college player.

Some instructors are actually here for the kids and some are here trying to impress the parents

If my advice is to basic or simple at times, dont sweat it. Ask your kid to explain it to ya.

 

[BoardMember]

"The pitcher may also step back (before the hands come together) and then forward to gain momentum in her pitching motion.

Anyway people..........Instead of focusing on Hal's consistent distraction attempts of my posts......Which are getting old..........Focus on the point....."

The point was, the pivot coming forward of the rubber before the stride foot.

Man are you a not a very honest person Skinner........The point was that YOU SAID the pitcher I posted STEPPED FORWARD WITH THE PIVOT FOOT OFF THE PITCHERS PLATE AND WAS THEREFORE CHEATING AND ILLEGAL...........Let me refresh your memory from just a few short hours ago........

Watch the pivot foot at the start of the motions. Pivot foot comes forward of the rubber, then the stride foot comes forward. She might hit the edge of the circle, but she has to cheat to do it, illegal pitch.

Do you remember writing that??? And you wrote it about this clip.

Let me hear(read) you say it again........Tell everyone the young lady in the clip is a CHEATER becaues she steps forward off the plate with her pivot foot to reach the front of the circle........Liar........

You basically flat out lied about the clip to distract from the topic.........Which was about Leap and Drag(YOU) vs. Push Off and Drag(ME)..........Because I said I don't like the term LEAP nor do I like the mechanics of the drive leg called a "LEAP"........So you tried to make my example of "Push Off and Drag" about an ILLEGAL CHEATING PITCHER........Why did you do that Hal?? To forward your aggenda??

My question to you is...........How the hell can you say, in front of god the this board, that the girl in the clip STEPS FORWARD from the plate, and therefore CHEATS to reach the front of the circle..........UNLESS you are purely aggenda driven to protect your own butt by creating distractions that are based on un-truths just because someone disagrees with what you teach........

The point is you do not get the luxury of constantly lying to people for your own benefit at the expense of myself or anyone else on this board...........Because I won't stand for it. I'll call you out EVERY TIME you do it........

Surely you are not trying to convince people that the NFHS section you cited applies to the pivot foot.

THE POINT IS HER PIVOT FOOT NEVER MOVES...........What don't you get about that????

If that was the case, every HS pitcher could bring the pivot out 3 feet then the stride foot out farther.. We would have stride lengths of 10+ feet.

Bring the stride foot back and then forward, yup they do. Dont believe they allow it with the pivot foot though.

If you want to debate then debate........Show proof of your side.

Tell us how "leaping" is better then "driving" straight forward..........Show us how "45 degrees closed" is DIFFERENT AND SO MUCH BETTER then "45 degrees open"..........Tell us how the "power-line" extends from the middle of the pitchers plate to the middle of home plate.......Instead of from "where you start to where you end up".............

I'm growing tired of your aggenda based lies and distractions Skinner.......How about you just stop it as of right now........Oh, and NEVER call my daughter a "cheater" again and you'll be a lot better off..........

 

[halskinner]

Please enlighten us oh great one. To what 'agenda' are you referring?

If I am a liar, then you are a coward. I post with my real name, I dont hide behind an anonymous screen name.

No offense intended to your daughter. Didnt know it was your daughter but that soesnt matter. I have posted some videos of very young beginners making their very first attempts at one thing or another. You have crucifed them, awful mechanics, unsuccessful pitcher, bad instructor, etc. So now I will remind you of what you said to me about one of my videos Why did you take the video public if you cant accept criticism?

Call me out all you want because the first thing I will ask you is 'WHO'S ASKIN???"

 

[javasource]

Hal,

Instructions intended for 12 year olds? You may have missed the original post (as you digressed into your never ending diatribe about step-style, leap/drag, cheating pitchers) as the parent of an 11 year old never had their question answered. Instead, they learned about your book, and a million other opinions off-topic. I guess she'll have to wait a year to understand all you say... in the meantime, we'll refer her to BM. Once she turns 12, I'll ask her to explain it to me.

 

[BoardMember]

And the distraction continues..............

I see a front step off the rubber, albeit a slight one, where the pitcher is reestablishing her push off point.

You see a front step OFF THE RUBBER?

What you see is a slight pivot foot slide toward the camera to the shallow side of the hole in front of the plate, which is totally legal........And exactly what my pitchers are taught when there is a LARGE HOLE in front of the rubber.........Then her toes begin moving downward into the hole as she loads her drive leg for the push..........The red line marks her heel.........There is ZERO forward step off the rubber with the pivot foot prior to the forward push.........

Here is the original video clip..........You can play it until the cows come home.........



There is no CHEATING as Hal Skinner has accused her off........And she is COMPLETELY LEGAL unlike Hal Skinner contends........

The simple fact that he goes to such lengths to discredit people who disagree with him speaks volumes to me about his character.........And his aggenda to push his wares.........

 

[BoardMember]

Please enlighten us oh great one. To what 'agenda' are you referring?

The aggenda of you constantly pushing crap to sell your wares.........Including accusing people of "cheating" and pitching Illegally so you can appear to be right.

If I am a liar, then you are a coward. I post with my real name, I dont hide behind an anonymous screen name.

The people who need to know my name already do......Or they ask..........I'm not here to sell books or push my wares.......You won't find any "adds" in my signature........I'm here to help people understand and sift through the crap people like you post to get to the REAL STUFF that matters...........

No offense intended to your daughter.

Too late buddy..........She already read it........And she doesn't need to read your books to read you like a book..........

Call me out all you want because the first thing I will ask you is 'WHO'S ASKIN???"

Oh don't worry......I do/will........Every time you pull your aggenda driven rhetoric....."She's cheating"......."She's Illegal"........"She's a stepper not a leaper"........"You teach step style and I don't".........."You must be an open style pitching coach"........."I only teach closed style at 45 degrees open"............Bla bla bla bla bla.........

There's reason you HAVE TO categorize EVERYTHING as "different from you" Hal.........Don't you get that I know why that is??? You may fool some of them.......You don't fool me...........

This ain't my first rodeo buddy.......

I suggest for your sake we move on from this subject..........