players rule

[Arm and Hammer]

HS game last week, we had this happen. Pitcher rolled the ball toward home, runner at 2nd took off to 3rd as the catcher jumped up and ran out toward the mound and picked up the ball. Umpire didn't call it (score was 12-0 in the 3rd) and it wasn't a big deal. But if he had, would the runner be returned to 2nd?

So I am kind of new at this rule stuff, but as I understand it, the batter must be given the opportunity to hit the ball. If the catcher obstructs that opportunity, then it would be interference, dead ball, ball called to batter, runners on base advance. One of you Rule Masters please check my math on that.

It's kinda’ fun learning this stuff!

 

[GI Tom]

FPMark/Arm and Hammer:

Rule 8.1.D.3 - The catcher steps on, or in front of home plate without the ball and prevents the batter from hitting the ball. EFFECT: Dead ball, the batter is awarded first base, and runners are advanced one base, if forced. (pp 83-84 2011 book)

So, the answer to the question specifically for FPMark is the runner on 2nd would have to go back to 2nd, unless there was a runner also on first, then everyone moves up. For Arm and Hammer, runners on base can only be advanced in this situation if forced as stated in the rule above.

EDIT: This is for ASA.

 

[MTR]

FPMark/Arm and Hammer:

Rule 8.1.D.3 - The catcher steps on, or in front of home plate without the ball and prevents the batter from hitting the ball. EFFECT: Dead ball, the batter is awarded first base, and runners are advanced one base, if forced. (pp 83-84 2011 book)

You are correct, but that is also wrong. This is a rule change that needs to happen, but it is too late for this year. This should be the same as any other CO. What if the runner is safe at 3B? The manager should be given the choice. S/he may want the runner at 3B and keep the batter at the plate.

Damn, why didn't someone post this a month ago

 

[FPMark]

You are correct, but that is also wrong. This is a rule change that needs to happen, but it is too late for this year. This should be the same as any other CO. What if the runner is safe at 3B? The manager should be given the choice. S/he may want the runner at 3B and keep the batter at the plate.

Damn, why didn't someone post this a month ago

Are you speaking ASA or NFHS?... or are they the same? I assumed this would have been the result if called correctly, but wasn't sure about HS. I do agree that it should be changed.

P.S. Is there an option to refuse other CO calls?

 

[GI Tom]

You are correct, but that is also wrong. This is a rule change that needs to happen, but it is too late for this year. This should be the same as any other CO. What if the runner is safe at 3B? The manager should be given the choice. S/he may want the runner at 3B and keep the batter at the plate.

Damn, why didn't someone post this a month ago

In most cases of CO the batter at least has a chance to put the ball in play, but in this case they cannot due to CO occurring before the pitch even reaches the batter. So if the rule changes, I would assume the option for the coach would be the result of the play which would be a ball on the batter and the runner awarded the steal, or as the rule is stated above, correct? Just inquiring as I don't quite understand why the rule would need to be changed. I think of the dead ball in this case always occurring prior to a runner obtaining the next base. Am I somehow being narrowminded here?

And then my followup would be, what if for some unforseen reason in the case above the batter actually swings and hits the catcher as she is moving across the plate. Would it be a strike with a runner awarded the steal as the first part of the option? You've got me really thinking now.

Lastly, in response to your question about posting this a month ago, I thought you penned the entire ASA rulebook, therefore you should have known it.

 

[Crabby_Bob]

HS game last week, we had this happen. Pitcher rolled the ball toward home, runner at 2nd took off to 3rd as the catcher jumped up and ran out toward the mound and picked up the ball. Umpire didn't call it (score was 12-0 in the 3rd) and it wasn't a big deal. But if he had, would the runner be returned to 2nd?

There have been some replies citing ASA rules but the quote references high school. Nevertheless, if this is ASA, wouldn't we have an IP (6.3.N) followed by a CO (8.1.D.3)? Batter and all runners didn't advance one base. Now coach gets the choice of the award for an IP, that is, a ball added to the batter's count and all runners advanced one base, or, the result of the play, in this case, a CO of the dead ball variety which results in the batter awarded first base and runners advance if forced. Where have I gone wrong?

 

[GI Tom]

There have been some replies citing ASA rules but the quote references high school. Nevertheless, if this is ASA, wouldn't we have an IP (6.3.N) followed by a CO (8.1.D.3)? Batter and all runners didn't advance one base. Now coach gets the choice of the award for an IP, that is, a ball added to the batter's count and all runners advanced one base, or, the result of the play, in this case, a CO of the dead ball variety which results in the batter awarded first base and runners advance if forced. Where have I gone wrong?

Crabby_Bob, I believe 6.3.N is only an illegal pitch if the umpire believes the pitcher intentionally bounced or rolled the ball in, which I didn't get that from FPMark's post, I could be wrong however.

 

[Comp]

Now you have an interesting situation. Fed and asa treat these the same. If in the umpires judgement the pitcher intentionally rolled the ball it is an IP, but the batter still has to be given the opportunity to hit the ball. If catcher jumps out and picks up ball before it reaches plate you now have Co. You have 2 infractions on the same pitch and not sure if you enforce both or not. Will have to go post on umpires board to get some opinions.

 

[Ajaywill]

Now you have an interesting situation. Fed and asa treat these the same. If in the umpires judgement the pitcher intentionally rolled the ball it is an IP, but the batter still has to be given the opportunity to hit the ball. If catcher jumps out and picks up ball before it reaches plate you now have Co. You have 2 infractions on the same pitch and not sure if you enforce both or not. Will have to go post on umpires board to get some opinions.

I've got two violations on the defense...the IP for the pitcher intentionally rolling the ball to the batter (which is how I read the play in question), and Catchers Obstruction when the catcher jumped out from behind the plate to get the ball before it reached the plate. I'm enforcing penalties for both violations. R1 on second is awarded third (IP), and batter is awarded first (CO).

 

[FPMark]

Man,... that is a good question. So while we're at it, let me throw another one into the mess. What if the ball doesn't make it to the plate? What if it stops half way to home? I'll assume it would be ruled an illegal pitch, and remove CO from the call. What if the ball is still moving when the catcher picks it up, but it doesn't appear to be rolling fast enough to get to the plate? If you are going to post the question on an umpires board, ask these also.

Or... we can just wait for MTR to clear it up on here.