OBS off once runner demonstrates intent to advance?

[Momo'sDad]

At the Farmer's Market tonite, I got into an ASA rules discussion with a buddy of mine. He coaches a couple of travel teams and is also an umpire, who primarily calls SP games.

Scenario 1: Runner starts on 1B. Batter hits shot to deep RC. R1 makes turn at 2B then is obstructed going into 3B. BU signals the OBS. R1 thinks she has a chance to score and tries to make it home, but is tagged out just before she reaches the plate.

Friend says that R1 is out, because the OBS is off once the runner's intent changes with respect to trying to reach an additional base.

I say that R1 is not out and that she's entitled to the base where her path was obstructed, which would be 3B in this case. I hold that, IF obstruction is judged to have occurred, then the runner cannot be ruled out on that play.

Is either of us correct??

 

[Greenmonsters]

At the Farmer's Market tonite, I got into an ASA rules discussion with a buddy of mine. He coaches a couple of travel teams and is also an umpire, who primarily calls SP games.

Scenario 1: Runner starts on 1B. Batter hits shot to deep RC. R1 makes turn at 2B then is obstructed going into 3B. BU signals the OBS. R1 thinks she has a chance to score and tries to make it home, but is tagged out just before she reaches the plate.

Friend says that R1 is out, because the OBS is off once the runner's intent changes with respect to trying to reach an additional base.

I say that R1 is not out and that she's entitled to the base where her path was obstructed, which would be 3B in this case. I hold that, IF obstruction is judged to have occurred, then the runner cannot be ruled out on that play.

Is either of us correct??[/QUOTE]

No! Runner is at least returned to 3B or more likely, given your description that it was a close play at the plate even after having been obstructed, awarded home safely. If obstruction only gave a runner the next base, then you're encouraging F3 to obstruct on every extra base hit!

 

[Comp]

Purely umpire judgement. The runner may not be put out between the 2 bases where the obstruction occured, but, the umpire may protect the runner further if they judged the runner would have been safe absent the obstruction. In the case you have presented, if the umpire judged 3rd is all the runner would have safely reached, once the runner goes past 3rd the obstruction is off and the runner would be out when tagged at home. On the other hand, if the umpire judged the runner may have had a chance to reach home absent the obstruction, they can choose to protect them further and award home. Im not sure I see the option of putting the runner back at 3, either the runner legitimately had the chance to reach home or they didnt. If they did not, once past 3rd the runner has chosen to advance at their own risk.

 

[cmustangsfp]

To make it simpler, if the runner paused after getting to 3rd then she is out, If the runner kept running through/around the obstruction and kept trucking it for home, then she probably would have been safe if the OBS had not occurred. In other words, if the OBS slowed her down then safe at home, if she slowed herself down, then out at home.

 

[PA SB Dad]

I'd like to hear the umpires chime in, but I think the runner is protected between the two bases where the OBS occurred, but once she tries to advance beyond that base (3B in the example), she advances at her own risk and is liable to be put out.

 

[David Carter]

I think the phrase in comp's post is key; the runner is entitled to the base they would have advanced to, in the umpire's judgement, had the obstruction not occurred.

Several things at play...as others pointed out you can't just get the base in front of you because then the 1B would obstruct every play and the runners would only ever get first. You can't be forever protected because then once obstruction was signaled the runner would run forever knowing they would always be safe at the last base they touched.

Might be more interesting to ask umpires what are key factors they use in determining their judgement:

The effect of the OBS was the player knocked down or just bumped into
Then how close was the play that the runner got out on..out by a mile or bang bang
Does proximity play a factor in other words if you are obstructed rounding first are less likely to be protected at home vs third

 

[sb03dad]

I'd like to hear the umpires chime in, but I think the runner is protected between the two bases where the OBS occurred, but once she tries to advance beyond that base (3B in the example), she advances at her own risk and is liable to be put out.

Not an umpire, but stayed in a RV at a ballpark a few times. I believe this is correct. Our team ran into this 3 times this spring. Twice against us and once with the opposition. All times discuss with umpire, two times runner called out at home. Ruled OBS was only applicable to the next base. However, one case the OBS was the 3rd baseman prior to the reaching third, so home was awarded.

 

[Ajaywill]

Posted this on a local board earlier this week in response to a similar question:

Obstruction is a delayed dead ball. The umpire should signal by extending his/her left arm with a closed fist. At the end of the play, the umpire should award the obstructed runner and any other runners the base(s) they would have reached without the obstruction. This is in the umpire's judgement and a great majority of the time, the award is to the base the runner is standing on. Umpires are instructed to make the determination of how far to protect the runner at the time of the obstruction, not wait until the play is over.

Some other points concerning obstruction:

1. The runner does not have to attempt to reach the awarded base. If a runner is obstructed near second base and the umpire judges that the runner would have made it to home without the obstruction, the umpire may award home at the end of the play, even if the runner stops at second or third base.

2. A runner may not be put out between the bases where she was obstructed (there are some exceptions such as interference). However, the runner could be protected further than the next base. If a runner is obstructed between second and third, is tagged out between second and third, the umpire shall declare a dead ball and place the runner on the base they would have obtained without the obstruction. That could be third base or second base if the umpire judged that the runner would not have made it to third even without the obstruction. If, at the time of the obstruction, the umpire judges that the runner should be protected to home, then the umpire will award the runner home at the conclusion of the play, whether she attempts to run to home or not.

3. If a runner chooses to advance beyond the protection from the obstruction, she is on her own and is liable to be put out. How does the player and/or coach know what the protection is? They don't. Coach or play as the game in front of you dictates, not the umpires extended left arm. If you think you can advance to the next base safely, go, if not, stop. At the end of the play, the umpire will place runners accordingly.

Some of the factors that David mentioned are considered along with the speed of the runner, the strength of the fielder's arm, etc. The umpire should not wait for the conclusion of the play to determine protection. Doing this allows a potential subsequent play or action to affect the outcome. One example would be a runner obstructed between first and second on a base hit that should easily move her to third. However, the relay throw is bobbled and mishandled so the runner attempts home where she is thrown out on a close play at the plate. The runner (or her coach) elected to try for home on the bobbled ball, the obstruction earlier in the play is not a factor in that decision.

 

[Jackel2168]

I had one of my slappers drop a hit into right center. she rounded first and the 1b collided with her. I asked for obstruction to be called even though she was not going unless there was a bad throw, but just so she couldn't be put out. I was told that obstruction is not automatic and if I question it again I would be watching the game from my car. I'm under the impression that any contact in the base path between a defender and offender brings out the OBS call.

 

[Umpire]

Without getting into the specifics of the play (because the NCAA would hunt me down), I had a long conversation with my crew after we had an obstruction call between 2nd & 3rd with an out at the plate. The issue of "how out" she was came up.

The crew was stunned when I explained it in the following way: The average softball player (14u +) can run from one base to another in under 4 seconds. That's 15 feet per second. So, if a runner is obstructed by one second, there is a good chance the runner lost 15 feet. Getting thrown out at the plate by 15 feet seems huge and most umpires wouldn't dare score the run. However, if a runner runs into a player, losses all speed, then has to resume running, that player probably lost the ability to travel at least 30 feet in that time period.

In our case, the catcher got the ball when the runner was about 8 feet from the plate.

When in doubt, err on the side of awarding too many bases rather than too fewer. Why? Because you should err on the side of penalizing the team that violated the rule, not the team you followed the rule. If the coach doesn't like it, the solution is for him to tell his player to get the hell out of the way next time, not argue the call with the umpire. What incentive does the offending team have to stop offending if the umpire doesn't have the stones to enforce a penalty? This is not to say that it should be a free-for-all out there.