Making mistakes at practice and during games, DD struggles to recover

[Towny9]

I'm with you on everything here related to being a poor teammate. We don't want that.

I have a bit of a different perspective on body language. I don't think it matters. Unless it does.

Body language is an outward thing; it's about communication and it does not necessarily reflect the person's actual state of mind. It does not reflect their actual attitude or their focus going forward. It could mean something, but it doesn't have to.

If a player strikes out, slumps her shoulders and goes to the end of the bench in the dugout and plants herself there with a scowl on her face until the next time she has to do something, I don't think it makes any difference as long as she can perform the next time. Her teammates will learn to give her space in those moments -- something a lot of people need and something we often don't afford those who need it, which I'd argue is way more likely to negatively affect performance.

Negative body language might be a sign that someone's in a bad mental state. It also could be someone's way of handling/processing failure.

That player sulking at the end of the bench is going to alienate her teammates if it is a consistent behavior. It’s a pretty big turnoff in a group environment. I wouldn’t have a whole lot of confidence in that kid that they were going to be successful moving forward. Being a good teammate means being a good teammate regardless of how things are going for you individually. If you want it that way then there are individual sports like golf or tennis I would recommend.

I’m not saying the coach shouldn’t get to the bottom of it and see if it is a bigger issue, but when you make an error that hurts the team I’m going to need you to get your butt off the bench and cheer for your teammates.

 

[CoachCeetar]

That player sulking at the end of the bench is going to alienate her teammates if it is a consistent behavior. It’s a pretty big turnoff in a group environment. I wouldn’t have a whole lot of confidence in that kid that they were going to be successful moving forward. Being a good teammate means being a good teammate regardless of how things are going for you individually. If you want it that way then there are individual sports like golf or tennis I would recommend.

I’m not saying the coach shouldn’t get to the bottom of it and see if it is a bigger issue, but when you make an error that hurts the team I’m going to need you to get your butt off the bench and cheer for your teammates.

this sort of gate keeping what makes a 'good teammate' alienates all sorts of neurodivergent people. Some people aren't cheerleaders, that's just not how they are. But they might be the first over to help you if you need a warmup partner, or help carrying your gear. There are a lot of ways to be a good teammate, and someone taking a bit to sulk doesn't exclude them. Now if they spend the entire inning their and are the last person out of the dugout to go back on the field..that's different. Too often we tell kids to ignore or tamp down their emotions and it's usually pretty unhealthy to do so.

 

[Rolling Hard]

I'm with you on everything here related to being a poor teammate. We don't want that.

I have a bit of a different perspective on body language. I don't think it matters. Unless it does.

Body language is an outward thing; it's about communication and it does not necessarily reflect the person's actual state of mind. It does not reflect their actual attitude or their focus going forward. It could mean something, but it doesn't have to.

If a player strikes out, slumps her shoulders and goes to the end of the bench in the dugout and plants herself there with a scowl on her face until the next time she has to do something, I don't think it makes any difference as long as she can perform the next time. Her teammates will learn to give her space in those moments -- something a lot of people need and something we often don't afford those who need it, which I'd argue is way more likely to negatively affect performance.

Negative body language might be a sign that someone's in a bad mental state. It also could be someone's way of handling/processing failure.

If a college coach is watching your game and a player has poor body language during and/or after an AB showing defeatism, woe is me attitude, there is a good chance she just got her name Sharpied off the coach's list.

Two kinds of players:
Player one gets first pitch called strike one on a ball that is outside, 2 balls off the plate. Looks back at the ump, then slumps her shoulders and looks at her 3rd base coach for some sort of sympathy. She lets the ump ruin her entire AB and ends up striking out.

Player two gets the same pitch called strike and thinks, wow if he going to call that a strike I going to have to make an adjustment. Crowds the plate, lets ball travel and dices a double into right field on the next pitch.

Body language DOES reflect the persons state of mind.

 

[RADcatcher]

Body language DOES reflect the persons state of mind.

Yep sure can!
No Jersey team name or organization name can cover that up.

 

[Towny9]

this sort of gate keeping what makes a 'good teammate' alienates all sorts of neurodivergent people. Some people aren't cheerleaders, that's just not how they are. But they might be the first over to help you if you need a warmup partner, or help carrying your gear. There are a lot of ways to be a good teammate, and someone taking a bit to sulk doesn't exclude them. Now if they spend the entire inning their and are the last person out of the dugout to go back on the field..that's different. Too often we tell kids to ignore or tamp down their emotions and it's usually pretty unhealthy to do so.

Obviously you have to take into account whether it’s a relatively isolated incident or something more habitual, as well as how they are in other aspects. I’m not trying to come off insensitive, but I’m just stating the fact that continuously and repeated poor body language, moping, feeling sorry for yourself, etc. is a turn off for everyone else around you. Most people (right or wrong) won’t consider the reasons for it. When you are “in the arena” of competitive sports, judgement by others is coming whether you like it or not.

 

[CoachJD]

If a college coach is watching your game and a player has poor body language during and/or after an AB showing defeatism, woe is me attitude, there is a good chance she just got her name Sharpied off the coach's list.

Two kinds of players:
Player one gets first pitch called strike one on a ball that is outside, 2 balls off the plate. Looks back at the ump, then slumps her shoulders and looks at her 3rd base coach for some sort of sympathy. She lets the ump ruin her entire AB and ends up striking out.

Player two gets the same pitch called strike and thinks, wow if he going to call that a strike I going to have to make an adjustment. Crowds the plate, lets ball travel and dices a double into right field on the next pitch.

Body language DOES reflect the persons state of mind.

You added so much to the first one that it completely takes it out of the realm of "bad body language," so it's honestly almost not worth even responding to.

In addition to bad body language (slumping the shoulders), you decided this player also likes to show up the umpire and plays the victim to her coach. Yeah, that's a player that's going to have a problem.

But what about the player who slumps her shoulders (could be because of a bad call or because she wishes she had swung at the pitch) and then digs in for the next pitch and crushes it?

Any college coach who is going to cross a player off because of meaningless stuff is a coach who 100% would fail that particular player anyway. That doesn't mean the coach can't coach, but I guarantee with that mindset that coach cannot coach that player. It's best they not try to work together.

Body language might reflect a person's state of mind in that instant, but it's not predictive of future performance and it's certainly not an indicator of a player's general attitude or ability to be a good teammate.

 

[CoachCeetar]

Obviously you have to take into account whether it’s a relatively isolated incident or something more habitual, as well as how they are in other aspects. I’m not trying to come off insensitive, but I’m just stating the fact that continuously and repeated poor body language, moping, feeling sorry for yourself, etc. is a turn off for everyone else around you. Most people (right or wrong) won’t consider the reasons for it. When you are “in the arena” of competitive sports, judgement by others is coming whether you like it or not.

There's a difference between internal moping and external moping too. it's one thing to slump a little and dejectedly retreat to the dugout and sit in the corner for the rest of an inning after a strikeout. It's another to then mope out to 2B and go through the motions.

Even further, there's a difference between between a player that looks a little defeated, but still hustles, but then slumps again in the dugout. And then asks the coach afterwards "should i have swung at that one? I was thinking X, should I have waited for Y?" or something else. Versus the player that keeps their head high, doesn't show any signs of frustration at the failure/mistake, and just goes home afterwards. An outside observer might think they want the second player, but I'd take the first every time.

 

[STLDuane]

Did you say "I got you"?

Honestly, I was pissed - and then laughed.

 

[Nuwin]

...player that keeps their head high, doesn't show any signs of frustration at the failure/mistake, and just goes home afterwards...

There is a segment of the population that will criticize that player for not caring.

It is possible to be both frustrated and a good teammate at the same time. And a good coach can spot the difference and give that player the space to be their authentic selves. A manager will only be successful with the narrow segment of players that do it exactly how they want. If that manager writes you off, it's probably best for both parties. Even if the only message is that it's 'bad' for the player.

Now if you really truly only want to play for Team X, you have to assimilate to whatever that coach wants. That's the price to pay for that achievement. But if you can cast a wider net, you can find happiness in places you may not have expected.

 

[PJR202]

Has she spoken about this with an older player, or former high level player?

I've had some specific issues with my daughter (HS pitcher) about her attitude at certain times during this offseason, and all the logic in the world wasn't helping. Her hitting coach, who isn't a whole lot older than her, spent about 30 seconds helping her to reframe some of her opinions about her role, and my kid's attitude toward pitching and softball in-general has done a 180.

I think only so many heart-to-heart talks can come from dad. Her instructor isn't all that far past her HS career and is someone my kid clearly looks up to. That carries a lot of weight.