Losing sight of the ball

[Eric F]

Eric, I never said the hips don't move up when having to block but I also never heard Megan say get in a runners on stance when preparing to block the ball with runners on in the video clip you just posted. DD actually went to a clinic she and Cat but on in Houston last fall and she wasn't teaching a runners on stance then....

I'm not disputing any of the things you're saying or Jay is teaching is wrong and not effective all I'm doing is putting the information out there for others to hear what we have been told and what these coaches want to see my DD do while they're recruiting her, they need to decide for themselves on what is effective for their DD.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree that Megan isn't using a RO stance in that video. My point is that the RO stance can make a catcher faster to block, which is NECC's justification for teaching it for softball the same way it's used in baseball. Clearly Megan got the job done - and done well - regardless. She's an amazing athlete.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I know the majority of you guys on here believe that the NECC teaching methods are the bible and you will discount any other thought that goes againist it but remember this Jay Weaver isn't the one recruiting your DD.

One would think that if his method is so good how come no D1 catchers, NPF catchers or D1 coaches are supporting this method and if there is some out there its very few.

The comments I posted above was from a pretty good list of who's who in the fastpitch world.
Here is a few:
LSU coaches and former player
Baylor coaches
Texas Tech Coaches
Oklahoma coaches and former players
Texas State Coaches
University of Michigan Coaches and form players
USSSA Pride pro team catchers (jessica Shultz and Megan Willis)
ULL Coaches
University of Florida Coaches
Unviversity of Gerogia Coaches and former Player (Kristen Sanburg)
Texas A&M Coaches and Fromer Player
Texas Tech Asst Head Coach
University of Houston Coaches

My DD has been to camps and clinic and has practice one on one with some of these folks and the general answer to the question on runners on stance was no such thing.

The reason we shoult out this question is because DD has been to the NECC camp and we have the DVD and trained from it and DD was utilizing the runners on stance and at every camp, clinic and one on one lesson she went to she was told this.

One comment that made me think was the coach from Georiga Southern that was at LSU Elite Camp last summer said how do you plan on blocking a 60 plus mph drop ball in the dirt from that high of a stance then get in the position to throw from your knees and stil throw the girl out.. His response was no chance... You just took one of the best pitches your pitcher might have out.

All I ask is someone please show me some video of a good D1 catcher or NPF catcher using this method.

We continue to want to model hitting methods off the great hitters but you discount the methods of great catchers at the D1 and pro level on there models of what is effective.

Another comment that was told to me was with the runners on stance all that is being thought is how to modify the catchers stance for catchers that aren't quick enough or have the arm strength to make the throw to second in time without cheating up.

As a former D1 baseball catcher and father of a "lowly D3" catcher, it is my experience and observation that the catcher position is unquestionably the most poorly coached position in the game (softball or baseball). The coaches you reference just seem to further that case if you have characterized their responses accurately.

I am currently on an extended 15+ year crusade in search of good, readily available to the masses, catching instruction, I believe that the NECC DVD is the gold standard or catching video bible with no close seconds. Having also personally observed many hours of training during camps, clinics, and lessons, I can confirm that NECC continually expands upon, refines, and revises their catching instruction to keep it "state of the art".

IMO, there are many D1 softball and even MLB catchers who have very poor catching mechanics. They get by because of superior athleticism. Watch closely and you'll see that there are numerous passed balls/wild pitches in the WCWS every year and even in the recent MLB playoffs that are the direct result of poor set up and blocking technique. Some don't even receive the ball well or, worse, pull the glove and lose strikes.

Jonathan Lucroy may be the best in MLB now
– look at his stance in the throw at 3-5 seconds 2013/06/04 Lucroy throws out Donaldson - YouTube
Some are making a case for him being this year’s NL MVP Jonathan Lucroy: A No-Brainer for NL MVP | Community – FanGraphs Baseball

 

[ahiggins1804]

I agree with you greenmonsters the video of Lucroy looks to be an effective stance. Also agree that there is a possible miss conception of what NECC definition of a runners on stance should look like and what the major of todays youth runners on stance looks like. The ideal thinking of coaches I believe is a runners on stance looks more like butt high in the air back some what staright with the catcher leaning down to set up for a pitch...

 

[ahiggins1804]

Going back and looking at DD's pic with runners on I notice that there isn't much difference (DD's butt down a little lower to stick the low pitch) in how the two set up to recieve the pitch the only difference is runner didn't take off on DD. I guess she is utilizing a runners on stance..

 

[Eric F]

I agree with you greenmonsters the video of Lucroy looks to be an effective stance. Also agree that there is a possible miss conception of what NECC definition of a runners on stance should look like and what the major of todays youth runners on stance looks like. The ideal thinking of coaches I believe is a runners on stance looks more like butt high in the air back some what staright with the catcher leaning down to set up for a pitch...

Reference the pic I posted on page 1 for an example that satisfies both.

I agree that most of today's youth catchers don't do it right. Some of us are trying to change that. One catcher at a time.

 

[moe]

To continue the discussion...which is outstanding by the way...

What is a good training point to discuss when framing a pitch to present a strike is obviously not going to work and the catcher just needs to save the ball from a glove tip or pass by standing up? above the hands? arm pits?

 

[marriard]

To continue the discussion...which is outstanding by the way...

What is a good training point to discuss when framing a pitch to present a strike is obviously not going to work and the catcher just needs to save the ball from a glove tip or pass by standing up? above the hands? arm pits?

If you are receiving properly you should have enough range with your glove and arm be able to catch a strike without too much more than a shoulder shift/body lean side-to-side.

Once you have to do more than move more than that to receive it is not going to be a strike no matter what you do. Your priority shifts to catching/blocking and not giving up the passed ball/steal/whatever and you do what ever needs to happen to make that happen.

 

[chazbz1]

Moe,
I'm not sure I'm getting a good mental image of your concern. At what point is the glove obstructing her view. As she sets up? Or as she receives. There should be no obstruction from the glove as she sets up in runner's on stance. The glove stays below her face. You are welcome to send a clip or pic to me if you wish.

The catcher should make minimal lateral movements with their body (Unless a wild pitch is made) to receive pitches side to side. Shoulder to glove moves up and down to receive high/low pitches so as not to block umpire's view of ball into glove.



As for the validity runner on and the ability to block from a high or low stance, that's great fodder for another thread. See Catcher Myth #53 on this site or Catcher Myth #53 on FB for more info

Here is one of our catchers setting up in game conditions in both no runners on and runners on. (Different catchers utilize stances differently based on their body and build)

 

[Greenmonsters]

To continue the discussion...which is outstanding by the way...

What is a good training point to discuss when framing a pitch to present a strike is obviously not going to work and the catcher just needs to save the ball from a glove tip or pass by standing up? above the hands? arm pits?

Just saw Chaz' response, which is right on target, but I'll post what I had written anyway.

Generally a catcher should move as little as possible to catch a ball so an umpire can call a strike a strike. The more movement a catcher makes to receive the ball, the more it appears that the pitcher has missed their target, which makes it harder for the umpire to call a strike. For pitches in and near the strike zone, inside and outside pitch location should be responded to with the minimum lateral shift of the body (without moving the feet) necessary to center the pitch, whereas vertical pitch location should be adjusted to by raising or lowering the arm and glove. However, the catcher needs to catch every pitch possible, not just the strikes, so they need to move their feet laterally when the pitch is far inside/outside and/or they need to raise or lower their body if the pitch is very high or very low. Put simply, always catch the ball using as little movement as possible.