Is "closing the hips" a bad thing?

[CoachFP]

She has trouble throwing strikes and until she fixes her motion she will have big problems. I believe that the possibility of doing that is probably zero. When would she change? Can't do it during HS season, can't do it in the summer because of Showcases. The Fall also has showcases. So wait until next year Dec. -Feb. And I don't believe that the father would listen to anyone who would make radical changes. This is the same kid that quit high schools mid season last year. The stakes are too high for them to change. IMO

 

[cblake33]

She pitched pretty well at 2010 Nationals. Friend of mine's daughters team beat her in game 5. Still she had 18 k's that game.

Finucane Rocks ASA Nationals

 

[CoachKirk]

Interesting thread. Watch this video and see what you think of her style. Supposedly throwing mid 60's and a verbal commit to Mizzou as a Sophomore. Looks like she strides to left to clear her hips but her head and throwing shoulder stay more over the power line.

Tori Finucane -'13 (Good Counsel HS; MD) *UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI*

Don't worry about it. Doug Gillis will fix her when she gets to Mizzou and she won't be closing her hips.

 

[Steve Huff]

Steve TF has not thrown 63 straight balls...

Of course I never suggested she did. I don't think she is a bad pitcher at all in any way shape of form, except mechanics. I just think she is vulnerable. The 63 straight balls was a nightmare of ridiculous proportions! **** just had no foundation of mechanics, and taught by her So. Cal. dad! It took until January to get her throwing strikes, and she was the only pitcher to work with as the rest were injured.

 

[wannahit]

she obviously steps to the left of the powerline but only closes her hip on the one pitch she comes across her body, the other pitches she actually falls back onto her drive leg after release, certainly not slamming the hips closed, ends up in a kind of open position after release and the fall back

 

[02Crush]

In our sport the whole body is involved in more actions than we give credit to. Many times hip rotation is a product if a finish to an action. In pitching I see hip movement more as the same. I do not see it as an actual trained movement required as a part of the pitch motion. If after you release the ball and your hips rotate back towards the batter, I can see you picking up some (be it ever so slight) speed on the pitch. More than anything I think rotating around after the release places you in a much better place to field a ball hit right back at you. TF's style seems cool to me. I have not seen much down here like it. However every time she is leaning to one side after releasing the ball for that long I see her getting beaned in the head one day. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Steve Huff]

she obviously steps to the left of the powerline but only closes her hip on the one pitch she comes across her body, the other pitches she actually falls back onto her drive leg after release, certainly not slamming the hips closed, ends up in a kind of open position after release and the fall back

Those pitches she is falling back on are rise-balls. She is just producing a rigid front side to throw against and keep her weight back and ball up. The one where she came across her body was a curve, though it is not very clean. She could get a lot sharper break if she tightened it up.

 

[Steve Huff]

I would not change her style. Of course, college coach would fine tune. But I think they like her foundation the way she is.
TF has rise, screw, change and drop. And she can mix it up, so whether she is throwing one in the video, I saw at least one in it, she can throw them.
The only issue I see is the rollover drop causing any control issue, but that's not new to college or any level; and lots of pitchers have to work on that one.
Even control pitchers go through bad periods. Steve: I would not use pitchers names like you did and post that they are terrible. Everyone has a bad day, and lots of things go on in practice that are private that only coaches have privy to and not the world at large. It would be one thing if the player came out and talked about it in an interview. You don't go to practice to already be perfect and do what you excel at. You go there to work on the hard stuff.
I find it kind of arrogant that you think you are the be all and end of their performance; the schools recruited them so there must have been some great reasons. Don't use names if you do that; not needed.

Well screwball, your point about the name is probably appropriate. The arrogance issue is ridiculous. There are few people here outside the norm more than you! That isn't bad. We all have our opinions, no one more set in concrete than you! I accept everything Hillhouse teaches as viable and good. I don't do everything the same way, but I accept it. That is not arrogant. Arrogant is being unable to see fact from fiction. That isn't my issue!

You are right in that I didn't recruit any of those pitchers. In truth, I don't know why any of them were there except the girl who threw 63 straight balls in her first full workout. She had been a good pitcher and she had a good riseball until that season. But that may have been a dating and weight issue since she hooked up with a thug from the football team and she lost 45 lbs since her freshman year. Abuse!

Strange, because I have never seen pitchers in TB or college throw a roll-over with control issues inordinate to any pitch. In fact, I see more having issues with peel drops. But, that does not invalidate the peel drop.

Now you said TF throws a screw and a curve in combination as in back to back in your previous post. Now she has a roll-over drop that is out of control.

I guess your perceived results with TF pitching are more important than her health. It seems like an illogical fallacy to be so concerned with my pitcher's first name posted, from many years ago, yet you seem to lack concern for TF's physical health. Ironically my pitcher's physical and mental health were my big issue with her, not the 63 balls. I got that fixed! Her body and mind are a different issue.

 

[Ken Krause]

Anytime you're looking at a good athlete I think you have to take a step back and separate "successful" from "good" or "correct." I have seen plenty of kids with loads of athletic ability be successful (i.e. better than other kids around him/her) with less than ideal mechanics. They are because they have more fast twitch muscles or some other factor that gives them a distinct advantage. But that doesn't mean they're optimized or doing as well as they could if they had mechanics that worked better with the way the human body is constructed.

TF doesn't close the hips. She never opens them. That's a big difference. She just steps out of the way and lets her thunder arm do the work. I'm sure she has worked very hard to get to where she is with what she does. Can't help but agree with Steve that she'd be even better with better mechanics.

Everyone likes to point to Ueno as the poster child of closing the hips. If her method of closing the hips is so awesome and the big contributor to her speed, why don't all the Japanese pitchers do it? Surely their coaches have access to her regularly, and surely they'd like all their pitchers to throw 70 mph+ like she does. Why don't they have them all pitching that way? Especially since when I watched the World Cup last year I think most were in the low 60s at best. Apparently doing what Ueno does isn't a magic bullet for speed or else they'd all be doing it, and so would everyone else. Softball coaches are hard-headed, but they're not stupid.

 

[Steve Huff]

Anytime you're looking at a good athlete I think you have to take a step back and separate "successful" from "good" or "correct." I have seen plenty of kids with loads of athletic ability be successful (i.e. better than other kids around him/her) with less than ideal mechanics. They are because they have more fast twitch muscles or some other factor that gives them a distinct advantage. But that doesn't mean they're optimized or doing as well as they could if they had mechanics that worked better with the way the human body is constructed.

TF doesn't close the hips. She never opens them. That's a big difference. She just steps out of the way and lets her thunder arm do the work. I'm sure she has worked very hard to get to where she is with what she does. Can't help but agree with Steve that she'd be even better with better mechanics.

Everyone likes to point to Ueno as the poster child of closing the hips. If her method of closing the hips is so awesome and the big contributor to her speed, why don't all the Japanese pitchers do it? Surely their coaches have access to her regularly, and surely they'd like all their pitchers to throw 70 mph+ like she does. Why don't they have them all pitching that way? Especially since when I watched the World Cup last year I think most were in the low 60s at best. Apparently doing what Ueno does isn't a magic bullet for speed or else they'd all be doing it, and so would everyone else. Softball coaches are hard-headed, but they're not stupid.

I wish I had been as calm and erudite as you in this post! Much better said than any point I made! Ken, did you watch it on TV or were you there, including the last games?