International Tie-breaker, Nuances In Coaching

[Greenmonsters]

If they are willing to pitch to your 3 and 4 hitters, you've got to let them swing the bat. It just didn't work out this time. I agree with you re next time - avoid ITB by not stranding 9 runners! LOL

BTW - how many others playing indoor have a roof ball = dead ball out (DBO)? Whether dome or clay IF w/ limited OF in a netted facility, we've always played roof balls as live

 

[Lozza]

Not to my knowledge. Perhaps it is an Aussie Association rule? In ISF you don't have to throw the pitches. The umpire is notified by the pitcher that she wants to walk the batter, time is called, and the batter sent to first base. It was done to speed up the game. How does the "Continuation Play and Look-back Rules" apply here?

It was at Nationals. We do have that (just signal and they're on first base) but I remember reading only one was allowed per game.

 

[FPMark]

BB875... GM was right, you did what you could on offense, sometimes it just doesn't work out. But, on defense, if you had walked the first batter, and had a force at 3rd, would that have made a difference? The runner at 1st would have been of no consequence sense the runner at 2nd was the winning run.

 

[YOCOACH]

If they are willing to pitch to your 3 and 4 hitters, you've got to let them swing the bat. It just didn't work out this time. I agree with you re next time - avoid ITB by not stranding 9 runners! LOL

BTW - how many others playing indoor have a roof ball = dead ball out (DBO)? Whether dome or clay IF w/ limited OF in a netted facility, we've always played roof balls as live

That's the way we play in NE Ohio. If the ball hit's the roof net within the IF, the ball is out. If it hits the net in the OF, the ball is live. If the ball hits the net beyond a predetermined line woven through the net in the OF, it's a HR.

 

[Steve Huff]

Steve, this is an awesome topic and I really appreciate all of the insight given. For me, its extremely timely as we lost the semi-final game last weekend in ITB. It was in a dome and we were visitor. This is 14U TB & the game was tied 1-1. I had my lead off batter on 2nd base and my #2 hitter is a great bunter. I thought we were in a great position to make something happen. So, we bunted her over, they took the out at first base. I had 1 out with runner on 3rd. My #3 hitter was on fire all weekend. She had her first HR of her career and two shots bounced over the fence ground-rule doubles. I thought I was in the driver seat. Well, she popped up and hit the roof which means dead ball out. My blood pressure was maxing out at that time. But, my clean up hitter is a very solid bat so I thought all is not lost yet. She hits the ball very hard and on the turf I though we had a great chance still. But, she grounded out. We got 0 runs. Not what I was hoping for, ugh.

On defense, we decided to try for the lead runner. Opponent bunted down 3rd base line, we fielded it clean and tried for the play at 3rd. It was a bang-bang play but she was safe. So runners on 1st and 3rd with no outs. We intentionally walked the next batter setting it up for a force at home. Bases loaded no outs. Next batter promptly hit a great shot to right center to win the game.

Any advice on playing this differently? My only advice to myself is not to strand the 9 base runners we left on base throughout the game and I don't have to worry about ITB! LOL.

Thanks. This is great stuff to learn.

BB875, that is pretty tough luck. I was in a 5 inning ITB once in 18U and we did everything perfectly. We were the visiting team, so our strategies were pretty straight up. However, and I hope everyone will read this and I might need to go back and add this in a previous post. The HOME TEAM isn't required by that runner on 3rd base to pull up the infield and outfield. IT ISN'T THE WINNING RUN! They still have their at-bats. As a result the defense is pinched together playing against the "winning run" at the plate. This actually could work against you if you are the VISITING TEAM. The HOME team can play a normal defensive alignment. In this case fewer balls may squeak through the infield or go over the outfield's head to end the game.

"On defense, we decided to try for the lead runner. Opponent bunted down 3rd base line, we fielded it clean and tried for the play at 3rd. It was a bang-bang play but she was safe. So runners on 1st and 3rd with no outs. We intentionally walked the next batter setting it up for a force at home. Bases loaded no outs. Next batter promptly hit a great shot to right center to win the game."

What I would say about this is that your intentional walk was the right thing to do, but one batter too late! The winning run was on 2nd, and if you read my posts about the European Championships earlier in this thread, they did something similar, but actually worse! When you are the VISITORS, you have the strategic advantage. You should always create force situations on the winning run unless your pitcher can't throw strikes! The only other exception, and that would be rare, is who is coming up to bat. So from a coaching standpoint, that is the only choice you made that I would have done differently. Take advantage of the "givens"! Every base-runner situation has already determined what you do on DEFENSE. When you get the bases loaded and less than 2 outs, you have to pull in the infield and outfield. You don't have to make a choices like the HOME team coach does.

What I advise my girls to do in this situation is not to try to do to much! I think it was pressure. I also prepare them mentally for this and similar situations so they have confidence and understanding of the nuances of these situations. A good example is being in this or a similar situation in the bottom of the 7th inning. Say you are down 2 runs and you have 2 runners on base and 1 or 2 outs. For us, there were 2 outs. They are both slow and slower! You have a "whippet" on the bench and decide it is time to get her in the game. Who do you substitute for? I had a Graduate Assistant get out of sorts in a game during this situation wondering why we were doing what we did. She thought I subbed for the wrong player and came out of the dugout yelling about it. This created unnecessary tensions in this game situation. The players got all stressed not understanding what was going on. How can a girl that played ASA travel ball for all those years and 4 years of college ball not know how to sub this situation? Well I came in after a really poor college coach, and they do exist, and these DI players had a poor softball IQ.

Which girl do you sub for? Well the first runner isn't important. She will not take any chances because her run is meaningless. So our fast sub went to 1st base to pinch-run. She will then push the girl in front of her across the plate, and will be coached to exercise calculated risk in trying to score the tying run. The runner at 2nd, or R2 will take absolutely no chances since the score would have been 3-4 if she did score.

So prepare you kids to understand these situations, as they say, information is power. Secondly, I would emphasize that putting the ball in play solidly is more important than the big boomer! Too often they try to hit the pitch in a certain way, such as over the outfield's head. How do you hit a low-outside pitch over the left fielder's head? So mentally I would teach them to drive the ball but not to have any "visions" interfere with the mission. The only other thing that you could have done differently was to bunt the first batter in that situation. But that is an option and is not a mistake to hit away. In truth you were a victim of the 40+% of the time that the home team wins ITB's. It was a microcosm of a 7 inning game. You got out-performed. But if you talk about these things to the girls, my money is on doing better the next time around.

 

[Steve Huff]

BB875... GM was right, you did what you could on offense, sometimes it just doesn't work out. But, on defense, if you had walked the first batter, and had a force at 3rd, would that have made a difference? The runner at 1st would have been of no consequence sense the runner at 2nd was the winning run.

You are a good coach!

 

[BB875]

BB875... GM was right, you did what you could on offense, sometimes it just doesn't work out. But, on defense, if you had walked the first batter, and had a force at 3rd, would that have made a difference? The runner at 1st would have been of no consequence sense the runner at 2nd was the winning run.

Yes, looking back (all things being equal) if it had been a force at 3rd base, we would have got the out. I will definitely adjust next time. Seriously, thanks again. All of this really adds to a coach's arsenal of managing a game. In out last ITB situation back in September we were visitor once more, but we put 5 runs on the board that time. Kind of takes the pressure off! LOL.

 

[Steve Huff]

International Tie Breaker - Defensive Strategy

Yes, looking back (all things being equal) if it had been a force at 3rd base, we would have got the out. I will definitely adjust next time. Seriously, thanks again. All of this really adds to a coach's arsenal of managing a game. In out last ITB situation back in September we were visitor once more, but we put 5 runs on the board that time. Kind of takes the pressure off! LOL.

Here are some simple rules of thumb that will take the pressure off of coaches.

When the Visitors, always create force-outs (the exception would be a pitcher who walks a lot of batters or doesn't handle pressure well with bases loaded)

Never align the infield for a double play, as is sometimes the case in baseball.

With less than two outs, and the winning run on 3rd, you will load the bases, and less than 2 outs, pull everyone up (what difference does it make to catch a fly ball at the fence? The winning still scores.

You might consider having a 2nd pitcher throw any intentional bases on balls if she is already in the game and you have practiced it, so as not to get the game pitcher out of rhythm. She must pitch to one batter. (In ISF and perhaps some other associations you don't have to pitch to the batter, just put her on)

Put the pressure on the home team. An example is a slapper up in situations to advance runners or score. If you have her and she is at bat, determine, and use her skills. Pressure creates indecision!

The last rule is, always get an out! With a runner on 3rd base, and less than 2 outs, the percentages for scoring are probably about 90%. With bases loaded they are probably about 87%. With 1 out, they are probably about 65%. With 2 outs fielders can play normal positions and the percentage goes down to perhaps < 30%. So a sure out, even the out at 1st base, is better than risking bases loaded and no outs! These percentages are just reasonable guesses.

Visiting teams and coaches have the edge!

 

[Steve Huff]

Well, this went pretty well, and in my humble opinion, it seems to me there was a pretty high level of input in spite of the fact that not many coaches were very experienced in it! Feel good about it, because one of the situations explained here happened in Oklahoma City, and a Division I college coach sitting right behind me had no idea what I was talking about, pertaining to this post immediately above and also explained before. It happens! So in my opinion you had terrific instincts.

 

[MsDinosaur]

In out last ITB situation back in September we were visitor once more, but we put 5 runs on the board that time. Kind of takes the pressure off! LOL.

LOL, you might well think so, but in DD's last ITB during their semi-final game on Halloween, everyone's bats woke up. The other team put 5 runs on the board and thought they were going to cruise to an easy win, but then her team came up to bat, ended up with 6 (the 7th run probably could have scored from second too) and went on to win the tourney. :-D It was a wild ride.