Infield Fly Rule Call

[mtnbama]

This weekend in the state tourney.

Top of the inning, first two batters get on base, no outs.

Runners at 1st and 2nd. Next batter hits a little pop fly between short and left field -- the kind you know is instantly trouble for the defense. SS has to turn and run out after the ball, trying to make an over the shoulder catch. Left fielder is playing deep and is coming on hard to try to make a sliding catch, but ball drops in -- probably 20 feet into the grass. Near collision between LF and SS. Everybody safe --- until the plate umpire says that he called infield fly.

Pretty much kills the rally for the visiting team.

Blue was adamant that he got the call right, and essentially says that neither the difficultly of the catch nor the location of the ball mattered. His view -- it was a fly ball that an infielder had a some chance to catch.

My view -- horrible call -- worst call of the year. Is there anything I'm missing?

 

[Comp]

Must be able to be caught by an infielder with normal effort. As described anything but normal effort.

 

[MTR]

This weekend in the state tourney.

Top of the inning, first two batters get on base, no outs.

Runners at 1st and 2nd. Next batter hits a little pop fly between short and left field -- the kind you know is instantly trouble for the defense. SS has to turn and run out after the ball, trying to make an over the shoulder catch. Left fielder is playing deep and is coming on hard to try to make a sliding catch, but ball drops in -- probably 20 feet into the grass. Near collision between LF and SS. Everybody safe --- until the plate umpire says that he called infield fly.

Pretty much kills the rally for the visiting team.

Blue was adamant that he got the call right, and essentially says that neither the difficultly of the catch nor the location of the ball mattered. His view -- it was a fly ball that an infielder had a some chance to catch.

My view -- horrible call -- worst call of the year. Is there anything I'm missing?

To start, dump the "grass" indicator in IF discussions, the umpire was correct, the location of the ball is irrelevant.

The effort is another story. Is it possible for an IF to be caught by an OF? Absolutely.

The umpire needs to make a judgment call on this type of play. If he believed the ball could have caught with ordinary effort by an infielder and makes the call, it is what it is, poor judgment, but the call remains. However, you think a pop up called and out killed a rally? If that is the case, team wasn't playing well enough to win the game. After all, you stated that everyone advanced safely which means the team had runners at least on 2nd & 3rd.

Don't mistake this as an excuse, as described it does sound like a bad call, but nothing a team shouldn't be able to overcome.

 

[Coach JV]

Bad calls are a part of the game (per MTR) judgement calls
are defined as that, we have to live with it and move on

 

[mtnbama]

To start, dump the "grass" indicator in IF discussions, the umpire was correct, the location of the ball is irrelevant.

The effort is another story. Is it possible for an IF to be caught by an OF? Absolutely.

The umpire needs to make a judgment call on this type of play. If he believed the ball could have caught with ordinary effort by an infielder and makes the call, it is what it is, poor judgment, but the call remains. However, you think a pop up called and out killed a rally? If that is the case, team wasn't playing well enough to win the game. After all, you stated that everyone advanced safely which means the team had runners at least on 2nd & 3rd.

Don't mistake this as an excuse, as described it does sound like a bad call, but nothing a team shouldn't be able to overcome.

This was not intended to be excuse at all -- I had no illusions that our team was going to win the game -- we were down 6-0 in the last inning -- it just cost a chance to get a run. Did the call kill the rally? Probably not, but I do know that statistically, I have a better chance of scoring six runs to tie a game with the bases loaded and zero outs than 2nd and 3rd with one out -- but it would taken the involvement of a higher power in this case for that to have happened.

I was more bummed out that the call cost a senior (not my DD) a chance to say she got a hit in her last at bat in her fastpitch career. Yeah, it would been a cheapie Texas Leaguer, but we count those every day, but still, it would have been nice to say you got a hit in your last at bat.

The point I was making is that it wasn't bad judgement on the umpire's part, it was a misunderstanding of the rule -- his take was that if the infielder had a chance to make the play, then it was an infield fly. He said that effort and degree of difficulty had no bearing on the play. He completely dismissed any argument about the difficulty of the catch being relevant to the call. If you note the OP, it was just I was just trying to validate whether I was missing something or not.

On the infield fly being caught by an outfield -- note that there is a little subtlety here -- it is ONLY an infield fly if it can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort -- an outfielder can catch an infield fly, but ONLY if it could have been caught by an infielder.

So in this case, because the infielder was having to go run directly back on the ball and try to make an over the shoulder catch, the fact that the outfielder may have been able to catch it has zero bearing on the ruling.

Here's the NCAA version of the rule,and the outfielder exception

The infield fly rule is in effect when immediately declared by the umpire because
the batter hits a fair fly ball (not including a line drive or an attempted bunt) that
can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort when first and second base or
all three bases are occupied, and there are fewer than two outs.

An outfielder may catch an infield fly in the outfield provided an infielder could
have caught the ball with ordinary effort.

 

[MTR]

The point I was making is that it wasn't bad judgement on the umpire's part, it was a misunderstanding of the rule -- his take was that if the infielder had a chance to make the play, then it was an infield fly. He said that effort and degree of difficulty had no bearing on the play. He completely dismissed any argument about the difficulty of the catch being relevant to the call. If you note the OP, it was just I was just trying to validate whether I was missing something or not.

Well, did you win the protest? If the umpire made this statement, it is no longer a judgment issue.

On the infield fly being caught by an outfield -- note that there is a little subtlety here -- it is ONLY an infield fly if it can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort -- an outfielder can catch an infield fly, but ONLY if it could have been caught by an infielder.

So in this case, because the infielder was having to go run directly back on the ball and try to make an over the shoulder catch, the fact that the outfielder may have been able to catch it has zero bearing on the ruling.

Here's the NCAA version of the rule,and the outfielder exception

The infield fly rule is in effect when immediately declared by the umpire because
the batter hits a fair fly ball (not including a line drive or an attempted bunt) that
can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort when first and second base or
all three bases are occupied, and there are fewer than two outs.

An outfielder may catch an infield fly in the outfield provided an infielder could
have caught the ball with ordinary effort.

Waste of space. The rule is one of the easiest in the book. I have no idea why an umpire wouldn't understand it unless he has never received any type of decent training. Unfortunately, it seems as if this umpire hasn't.

The reason I noted to dump the "grass" issue is that one of the most common myths is that the dirt and grass are definitive references for the infield and outfield, respectively.

 

[tghorley]

I have no idea why an umpire wouldn't understand it unless he has never received any type of decent training. Unfortunately, it seems as if this umpire hasn't.

Even if they are properly trained they still have trouble some times with judgement. While waiting on our game a couple of weeks ago I was watching another game. The bases were loaded with 1 out. The infield was playing in. The batter hit a shallow pop-up that the 1st basemen and 2nd basemen both turned to get. Both got to the pop-up with no problem, but the ball dropped between them as neither called for it. No infield fly rule was called. In this instance it hurt the offensive team because the runners thought the ball would be caught and they stayed on base. The first baseman picked the ball up and quickly threw home for a force out and the catcher threw the ball to third for the third out.

Which leads me to ask, can either umpire make the call? It would seem that the BU would be in the best position to make the call.

 

[MTR]

Even if they are properly trained they still have trouble some times with judgement. While waiting on our game a couple of weeks ago I was watching another game. The bases were loaded with 1 out. The infield was playing in. The batter hit a shallow pop-up that the 1st basemen and 2nd basemen both turned to get. Both got to the pop-up with no problem, but the ball dropped between them as neither called for it. No infield fly rule was called. In this instance it hurt the offensive team because the runners thought the ball would be caught and they stayed on base. The first baseman picked the ball up and quickly threw home for a force out and the catcher threw the ball to third for the third out.

Umpires are taught that if the infielder has to turn their back to the infield, you do not rule IF unless that player can establish a position under the ball for the routine catch. The reasoning is that if the infielder has to chase the ball away from the IF, that isn't ordinary effort.

BTW, why would the runners stay on the base? Coaches should have them off at least a few steps especially if the IF is not called. There is plenty of time to return to the base once the ball is caught.

Which leads me to ask, can either umpire make the call? It would seem that the BU would be in the best position to make the call.

Officially, it is the PU's call. Often, the BU will help by indicating the depth and CAN make the call, but shouldn't unless absolutely necessary.

 

[tghorley]

Thanks MTR. In this particular case, both infielders could have caught the ball with ease so maybe the umpire thought it was a tougher play than it was.

If I remember correctly, this was a 10U game and the runners staying on base is not so uncommon.

Thanks for clearing up whose call it is. I have seen it both ways and was wondering if it may be the positioning of the umpires, but now I know.

 

[Ajaywill]

Thanks MTR. In this particular case, both infielders could have caught the ball with ease so maybe the umpire thought it was a tougher play than it was.

If I remember correctly, this was a 10U game and the runners staying on base is not so uncommon.

Thanks for clearing up whose call it is. I have seen it both ways and was wondering if it may be the positioning of the umpires, but now I know.

A couple of other things to consider:

You mentioned that it was a 10u game. You didn't mention what ruleset they were playing under, but there are rule sets as well as local and tournament rules that exclude the infield fly rule in 10u.

If the IF rule was in effect for that game, did any of the coaches ask about it after the play? Per most rulesets that I am aware of, the IF can be called and enforced after the play if it was an IF situation.