Illegal Pitch

[MT 73]

First and 3rd. Batter is struck with an illegal pitch but is in the strike zone when hit. What is the call in ASA??? Fed???
The ASA book mentions what happens when the pitch is not in the strike zone, but not vice versa.
I was wondering if R3 is granted home in this situation.

 

[Cannonball]

Edited by me. I misread the statement.

 

[quincy]

If batter is in the strike zone when hit it is a strike.

So in your scenario you would accept the IP, a ball to the batter and both runners advance a base.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

First and 3rd. Batter is struck with an illegal pitch but is in the strike zone when hit. What is the call in ASA??? Fed???
The ASA book mentions what happens when the pitch is not in the strike zone, but not vice versa.
I was wondering if R3 is granted home in this situation.

ASA and Fed effects on IPs are slightly different, so in this case ASA coach would be given option of taking the result of the play and Fed would not. Regardless, the end result would be the same - dead-ball strike overridden by IP effect of awarding a ball to the batter and a base to all base runners.

ASA rules regarding this are not well worded and structured.
- 7.4J says it is a strike "When a legally pitched ball hits the batter while the ball is in the strike zone." I suspect "legally" is a relic from before IPs became delayed dead-balls.
- 6(FP).2 Effect A-N are not in proper sequence - #3 covers HBP on an IP, however #2 has the catchall "Otherwise." The HBP portion should have been inserted before the catchall.

Fed rules (2011) are clear.
- 7-2-1 A strike is charged to the batter when: g. a pitched ball contacts the batter while swinging at the ball or the batter is hit by the pitch that is in the strike zone (dead-ball strike).
- IP Penalty would be assessed without asking coach of team at bat.
6-2-2 PENALTY: (Art. 2) An illegal pitch shall be called immediately. The batter is awarded a ball, and base runners are awarded one base without liability to be put out.
EXCEPTION: If the pitcher completes the delivery of the ball to the batter and the batter hits the ball fair or foul, or becomes a base runner, the coach of the team at bat shall have the option of the result of the play or the penalty for an illegal pitch. A delayed dead ball will be signaled by the umpire by extending the left arm horizontally.

 

[MTR]

No, legally means a pitch that is not illegal. If the pitch is an illegal pitch, it means the rules addressing IP take effect.

Also, I believe the "effects" to be in the proper order. B specifically refers to A, while C stands on its own specifically addressing an HBP by an IP which combines the award for the HBP & IP and there is no option.

 

[MT 73]

Thanks. I was taking our association's exam last week and this question came up.
The monitor ( it was pretty much a slam dunk exam for returning officials) told us the answer involved leaving R3 on 3rd.
Which I disagreed with.
MTR is correct--since the batter advances to first and all others advance i do not believe the coach has an .

 

[SoCal_Dad]

No, legally means a pitch that is not illegal. If the pitch is an illegal pitch, it means the rules addressing IP take effect.

The issue is determining the result of the play for the correct application of the IP rules. How do you get dead-ball strike without 7.4J? Is "legally" necessary in 7.4J?

Also, I believe the "effects" to be in the proper order. B specifically refers to A, while C stands on its own specifically addressing an HBP by an IP which combines the award for the HBP & IP and there is no option.

Hmm, my 2013 rule book numbered the effects... I don't see how "B specifically refers to A" - please elaborate.

A and C are specific situations and B is intended to be the catchall for everything else. There are other places in the ASA rule book where sequence is important in the correct application of the rules and that would be problematic here as B would preclude C. Regardless, this portion would be clearer if the "otherwise" catchall was listed last.

 

[MTR]

The issue is determining the result of the play for the correct application of the IP rules. How do you get dead-ball strike without 7.4J? Is "legally" necessary in 7.4J?

An IP has always been a delayed dead ball or a live ball. An IP that is delivered is never an immediate dead ball.


7.4.J doesn't include the word "legal" in it. You are probably quoting K in the 2015 book. And I never stated it didn't apply. However, to the debate of a "legally" delivered pitch. This is accurate under 7.4 (strike) because an IP is not to be called a strike in the FP game.



Hmm, my 2013 rule book numbered the effects... I don't see how "B specifically refers to A" - please elaborate.

A and C are specific situations and B is intended to be the catchall for everything else. There are other places in the ASA rule book where sequence is important in the correct application of the rules and that would be problematic here as B would preclude C. Regardless, this portion would be clearer if the "otherwise" catchall was listed last.[/QUOTE]

#1 states when IP is ignored and #2 addresses when the rule is applicable. #3 stands alone as it expressly address the specific scenario involving both an IP & HBP and there is no option as the effects of both "violations" are applied.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

The issue is determining the result of the play for the correct application of the IP rules. How do you get dead-ball strike without 7.4J? Is "legally" necessary in 7.4J?

An IP has always been a delayed dead ball or a live ball. An IP that is delivered is never an immediate dead ball.
Okay, an IP has never been an immediate dead ball. Good to know, but not what I asked about...

7.4.J doesn't include the word "legal" in it. You are probably quoting K in the 2015 book.
Hmm, I'm using the 2013 Participant Manual and I don't see any subsequent changes to 7.4 in 2014 or 2015...

And I never stated it didn't apply.

When/how does "it" apply?

However, to the debate of a "legally" delivered pitch. This is accurate under 7.4 (strike) because an IP is not to be called a strike in the FP game.

Is that true on a pitched ball that is prevented from entering the strike zone (i.e. my copy doesn't say "legally pitched")? More importantly, seems like an IP never being called a strike would open the door for HBP to be called (8.1F).

Let's go through some examples where an IP hits the batter in the strike zone and they didn't swing at it.

- Case 1: BU calls the IP and PU isn't aware an IP was called, so PU kills the ball and calls a strike even though it wasn't a legally pitched ball. I don't see any way for the pitch to be a ball or a strike under 7.4-5. What's the correct way to proceed from there?

- Case 2: PU is aware of the IP (e.g. they called it), so what is the proper way to handle the ball hitting the batter?
- - Can they still kill the ball immediately? If so, on what basis?
- - If not, can the offense choose a better result from the ensuing mayhem than the IP's usual ball and bases?