Ideal Pitch Selection/Combinations

[Mrek]

We had a flamethrower last year in 13u. She was throwing in the low 60's. Unfortunately, she came up from a rec league and she was absolutely enthralled with her speed. She had a curve and a screwball that moved approximately 10" or so. They had great movement but happened to stay on the horizontal plane and were every bit as fast as her FB. Because she was so used to overpowering her opponents, she absolutely refused to work on her change-up and slowing down her CB or SB. Needless to say, when we faced teams that practiced hitting that speed, she got tattooed all over the field. I am a strong believer in developing 3 speeds if not 4. I am also a strong believer in developing the up-down movement as well as the side to side. That being said, IMO, a flamethrower that can throw a drop curve at 60+ mph has a much better chance of success in the K department than a pitcher that can pinpoint her FB. I'm not saying that the occasional FB isn't warrented, just that it is a much easier pitch to hit on a relatively flat plane than some other pitch that is changing planes up or down;especially when hung over the plate by mistake.

Thats remarkable that a 13yo throwing 60+ with 10" (two and half balls) of lateral movement would get tattooed all the field.
While I agree about the need to change speeds, 10 or so inches of movement at that speed should move the ball off the sweet spot often.

My DD is a Soph at D3 this year, tops out at 62 and has about three balls of movement laterally.
I'm glad she doesn't face your 13u hitters.

 

[FP26]

I did find the "two" humorous. I would expect nothing less from a former catcher. I remember a few times my catcher would say ( before a big game ) "let's go over a couple of things"...............next thing I knew I had to get out my Abacus just to keep count.

I would be impressed in any players on my team even know what an abacus is!!!

 

[GOINGDEEP]

I would be impressed in any players on my team even know what an abacus is!!!

Don't feel bad, I'm trying to explain to my dad you don't have to rewind DVD's when you return them to the rental stores.

 

[YOCOACH]

Thats remarkable that a 13yo throwing 60+ with 10" (two and half balls) of lateral movement would get tattooed all the field.
While I agree about the need to change speeds, 10 or so inches of movement at that speed should move the ball off the sweet spot often.
My DD is a Soph at D3 this year, tops out at 62 and has about three balls of movement laterally.
I'm glad she doesn't face your 13u hitters.

Most TB teams in our area practice both live pitching and do machine work. As a general rule, our team practices hitting between 60-65mph pitching. Here's the problem as I saw it last year. 1)You can only move the ball so far off the plate and still have it be called a strike. 2) Any player who practices proper hitting as much, or more than the pitchers practice pitching, will have good pitch selection and usually be able to hit quite well. 3)Once these hitters have the pitcher timed because they won't/can't change speeds, all they have to do is sit on a pitch that will look like it will be called a strike and put it where it belongs i.e. outside pitch to deep right. IMO it is much harder to adjust two things; timing and then the bat plane mid-swing on a ball that moves up and down than to keep the swing on an even plane and adjust the timing. So again, IMO, horizontal movement at the same speed as a FB from a pitcher who cannot disrupt the hitters timing is going to get hit and hit hard and it really won't matter how much movement it has. It proved to be the case last year.

 

[Rick Pauly]

I am a big proponent of having four speeds...not everyone is skilled enough or being taught this...and it does take a relatively high level pitcher to achieve this. 10-14U pitchers are probably not ready for this and have many other things to perfect first.....a decent 16U pitcher should consider starting to work on it though. IMO, variation of speeds is the most difficult thing for a hitter to adjust to.
Here is a college level example of the four speeds/pitches:
Dropball--64
Riseball/Curveball--59
Offspeed Curve---50
Change Up---44

The data that Rick provided indicated a real difference in velocity between the rise and drop. A change up obviously represents a 3rd speed. That 3-pitch mix has been called optimum by some - maybe its as much because of the speed variation as it is the movement. Regardless, supplement those 3 pitches w/ another pitch of a different speed, whether its a straigh FB or curve or screw, and you'll making a hitter's job exponentially more difficult.

[/QUOTE]

 

[coach james]

I think this thread is getting off topic...
I prefer to work high and low more so than east and west.
My tendencies are typically an inside rise ball followed by an inside drop ball. Depending on the count here will determine whether I call a waste pitch (very high heat) or a low and away change up. This combo is pretty effective as long as our pitchers are on. I've also been known to call two or three change ups in a row.
Just do your best to not become predictable. And work to your pitchers strengths.

 

[RetiredCoach]

I had a conversation, recently, with a Division I pitching coach about her star pitcher. I had asked
what pitches she threw. I was told a fastball and a changeup. I was truly amazed, expecting a
litany of at least four pitches. I asked for details and was told that she had convinced this pitcher
to give up her other pitches that weren't working that well and focus on her strengths, which
are speed and location, location, location. The other advantage this pitcher had is that both her
fastball and changeup were pitched identically and could not be distinguished by the batter. Of
course her fastballs had some movement (slider like) and speed was varied, mildly. She also
mentioned that this pitchers location was so good that she could pitch an entire game without
putting the full length of the ball over the plate.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I think this thread is getting off topic...
I prefer to work high and low more so than east and west.
My tendencies are typically an inside rise ball followed by an inside drop ball. Depending on the count here will determine whether I call a waste pitch (very high heat) or a low and away change up. This combo is pretty effective as long as our pitchers are on. I've also been known to call two or three change ups in a row.
Just do your best to not become predictable. And work to your pitchers strengths.

Actually, no, I think its going fine IMO. Its about what pitches work well in combination (not sequences), the need to have a speed delta between pitches, the advantage of throwing the same pitch at different speeds,the need for movement, the pros of hztl and vertical movement, the necessity for control, the importance of avoiding predictable pitch sequences, and working with the individual pitcher's strengths. There is no magic formula!

 

[Greenmonsters]

I had a conversation, recently, with a Division I pitching coach about her star pitcher. I had asked
what pitches she threw. I was told a fastball and a changeup. I was truly amazed, expecting a
litany of at least four pitches. I asked for details and was told that she had convinced this pitcher
to give up her other pitches that weren't working that well and focus on her strengths, which
are speed and location, location, location. The other advantage this pitcher had is that both her
fastball and changeup were pitched identically and could not be distinguished by the batter. Of
course her fastballs had some movement (slider like) and speed was varied, mildly. She also
mentioned that this pitchers location was so good that she could pitch an entire game without
putting the full length of the ball over the plate.

Sounds like a smart coach and a pitcher you don't want to play poker with.