This is one of the areas I'm trying to improve one of my pitchers, disassociating the hips from the shoulder for a better whip. The hips should fire at plant with the shoulders twisted out of alignment to the hips. This creates core torque for better snap through the backside of the circle before release. I've trimmed up a Blaire Luna and Cat Osterman video. Focus on the hips firing with the shoulder and arm coming in right behind them.
Hip Snap/Shoulder-Hip Disassociation
- Thread starter WillyT812
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I think it's a result of the unweighted drive foot. If the drive is correct, it will happen. Therefore, not really something to actively focus upon apart from the drive itself. The more efficient and powerful the drive, the more torque and rotational energy will be created in the resistant front leg and transferred into the core and hips.
What I've noticed in my DD, who is younger than yours, is that often she will kick the back leg out after the ball has been delivered. She is slowly making progress in unpinning/unweighting the back leg so that it is "being pulled" by the core and hips prior to delivery. IMO, you DD is doing really well in this regard, now just time to focus on creating more power via a more efficient drive.
What I've noticed in my DD, who is younger than yours, is that often she will kick the back leg out after the ball has been delivered. She is slowly making progress in unpinning/unweighting the back leg so that it is "being pulled" by the core and hips prior to delivery. IMO, you DD is doing really well in this regard, now just time to focus on creating more power via a more efficient drive.
- Feb 28, 2010
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It is the result of an unweighted drive foot. But it is not anything to do with the hips. In my opinion, it is not a passive movement. It is an active turning of the drive leg knee cap, and therefore thigh, inward. The rear hip only moves slightly because of the movement of the knee and thigh. The drive leg knee cap points toward home just before release of the ball. The action of the knee speeds up the transfer of momentum into the resistance of the plant leg. Yes, the core is involved in this movement. Watch the Luna video closely, it is the drive leg knee turning inwards and then forward- not hip.
Watch the Scarborough slo-mo video clip, the Ueno video clips, the Osterman video clips, the Pauly video clips, the Abbot video clips, the Hillhouse video clips. That drive leg knee is turning inward, the drive leg thigh is turning inward, the drive leg knee cap is pointed toward home plate, but the rear hip is only slightly moving. It is just a quicker way to shift weight forward, instead of just pulling the rear leg up.
I agree completely with you about the I/R of the drive leg thigh.
However, I don't think the internal rotation of the drive thigh or knee is an active move. When I experiment with it, I don't feel an active effort to I/R the rear thigh at all, but instead feel my core and glutes fire in unison, which causes the I/R to happen (I think).
I'm not necessarily saying what I "feel" is correct, just trying to describe it. Perhaps my rear thigh isn't I/R'ing at all? I'm not sure.... Maybe I should get DD to video her Dad for a change. LOL
You've piqued my curiosity as to whether or not proper I/R of the rear thigh is active or passive....
I love this thread's focus on feel and that parents/coaches are trying this stuff! As FLOI will quickly point out, only a pitcher can truly relate to a pitcher. If the parent/coach can learn along with the student, there is so much more ability to relate. The trick becomes finding the cues that click for the kid...
I went through videos of my DD pitching last Tuesday. We've been working on the 2-Step drill for the last 3 weeks. Unfortunately, due to her basketball schedule, we are limited to pitching once a week for an hour, and drills at home when we can. Anyway, I noticed in the videos that she has a really "stiff" drive leg. Now goosesdad1 has me wondering if this is something I need to focus upon. Any thoughts? Here's the video:
javasource
6-4-3 = 2
Whenever major muscles contract, there's movement. Add in rotational velocity and a ground force reaction... in a multi-segmented system... like a train hitting a wall... and you've all types of movement... especially from the caboose. The knee is a joint... as is the hip. Both react as a result of forces acting on them, not just because of their position in space.
IMO, rotation happens in pitching. Force assisted movements result in the body being reoriented quicker... and the orientation of the body greatly determines the efficiency of which the system operates. Adduction movements are a great example. You can adduct into something or around something... one is much more efficient... and there's plenty of space inbetween. Are you promoting adduction and I/R beyond 45-degrees... and if so, how much?
Oh yeah, don't forget: Proximal stability... allows for distal mobility. Simple stuff...
IMO, rotation happens in pitching. Force assisted movements result in the body being reoriented quicker... and the orientation of the body greatly determines the efficiency of which the system operates. Adduction movements are a great example. You can adduct into something or around something... one is much more efficient... and there's plenty of space inbetween. Are you promoting adduction and I/R beyond 45-degrees... and if so, how much?
Oh yeah, don't forget: Proximal stability... allows for distal mobility. Simple stuff...
I think Blaire and Cat's glove side adduction across their back has more to do with the back hip than anything else.
I also think Blaire is putting her body in that position since she is just stepping vs. driving out.
One last thing, I think if they let their back knee get turned backwards past 90 degrees, they would never get it caught back up and the snap wouldn't occur.
I also think Blaire is putting her body in that position since she is just stepping vs. driving out.
One last thing, I think if they let their back knee get turned backwards past 90 degrees, they would never get it caught back up and the snap wouldn't occur.
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WaSpeed02, can you find a recent video of her from a pure side angle? It gets a little blurry but I'm pretty sure she's rotating the forearm prematurely and losing the whip right around 8 to 7 o'clock. Two ways to check the whip, one is with a relatively inexpensive camera that has high-speed video capability. 400fps or better should do it. Nothing is as valuable as showing a girl real-time video of herself, you can talk till you're blue in the face but one video is worth a thousand words in trying to show them they don't have it yet. Plus you don't come across as the messenger delivering bad news.
The second method is a striped ball. When someone throws with good IR the ball will have a nice solid stripe cocked at a 1 to 7 angle coming into the catcher. There's no mistaking it for anything other than a nice IR snap. It helps if you can do it, I had to teach myself. Shoot some video from the side and let's do a quick check on her secondary elbow pivot point.
The second method is a striped ball. When someone throws with good IR the ball will have a nice solid stripe cocked at a 1 to 7 angle coming into the catcher. There's no mistaking it for anything other than a nice IR snap. It helps if you can do it, I had to teach myself. Shoot some video from the side and let's do a quick check on her secondary elbow pivot point.
BTW, this was a thread on shoulder-hip disassociation. Guess we've lost that.
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