Help with I/R Release

[I/R Whipped]

Yep, simpler is probably better...which, being a scientific researcher by trade, can be hard as I always tend to lean towards analyzing down to the minutia...and then probably leaning more towards muddling my DD's mind with too much detail...

But then on the other hand, if it wasn't for this scientific background, I would have never found this site, read about IR, analyzed all the info, looked at all the video, etc...

Given the wide swath of video evidence showing that just about all the highest-level pitchers clearly pitch with IR (including live coverage of the most recent WCWS (which clearly couldn't be doctored in real-time by Boardmember...or could it have, conspiracy theorists??? ;-)), I dont need any more convincing that it's the way we want to go for my DD's future pitching...

First of all, lets be clear: IR is not some kind of magical silver bullet.

It *does* make perfect anatomical sense, and if youve tried it youself, does feel quite natural outside of the muscle memory context of other taught methods. What I mean is, if youve never pitched a softball, and were introduced to pitching with this method, then it will feel natural. But in the case of your DD and mine ( just turned 10) they will probably adjust to this fine, but it will feel "weird" for a while. Im also holding off on personaly endorsing this til after i see how control is affected. Sure velocity is great, but I dont 100% suscribe to the "velocity first, control later" school, either.

A big reason is that a young pitcher might get very discouaged and even want to quit pitching alltogether if they walk in lots of runs. Hard to reason with a 9 year old, that this speed vs control approach is "best for the long run." Im not endorsing "bad mechanics" per se, but do believe that you have to steer your DD to a place where she can enjoy a reasonable amount of sucess.

Regarding your Q's, i would say that in the case of a young and relatively inexperienced pitcher, i wouldnt muddle the waters with such minute details such as when the thumb/fingers come off the ball, and in what order. I say get them using the proper *gross mechanics* well, first. There's already going to be a lot to think about learning IR. and I imagine that at least a few of these q's will be worked out by the DD during this transition on her own. Part of the philosophy of IR is that it's what the body *wants* to do because of anatomy. Least path of resistance and all that stuff...

I dont know if this is a mistake or not, but ive decided to concentrate on IR-centric drills for practice sessions and warm-ups, and then when shes pitching full motion just let her pitch and not comment on IR mechanics details, and instead concentrate on all of the other "universal" mechanics of L/D pitching. My hope is that eventually the muscle memory of IR drills will start to migrate into her full motion sessions. Well see...

 

[I/R Whipped]

Thanks, Amy...DD is an avid swimmer, so the swimming analogy should definitely resonate with her...

I tell them, to lead with the elbow. Take pictures and show her that her arm is straight, while she wants it relaxed and bent, a little. A tight muscle is a slow muscle.

I sometimes talk about when you are getting a shot in your arm, you want to relax it. You don't want it tense.

Ask her about swimming. Does she swim with a straight arm or a bent arm?

But, after release, is where my girls tense up. I don't care too much what happens after release, except that I want them to be able to "flow," so to speak and tense doesn't translate into "flow."

I had a girl (12) change from tense and tight to loosie goosie, in 5 days time, and she came back to her next lesson, proclaiming that she felt like she could pitch twice as long. Success!

 

[I/R Whipped]

Yep, I agree 110% that you need to view everything on the internet with appropriate skepticism...and be wary of the "mob rules" mentality that is easy to do on the 'net...

But the whole IR thing has been supported with highly-scientifically-valid evidence that it's the "right"/"natural"/"bimechanically correct" way to do things...I'm lucky enough to have a personal trainer for a DW and showed her all the pics/video of IR vs. HE mechanics and it allowed her to spout off all kinds of other biomechanical terminologies about what was going on with the two pitching styles...

I guess I'm just saying that I need to see it and experience it for myself (vicariously though my DD).

I will admit that I am skeptical of internet forum "mob rule", where opinions are presented as fact in the closed-circuit of a forum cult-ure. I've experienced this in other "niche topic" forums from A/V Equipment to Fly Fishing to Guitars... A few very active and vocal members can flood a forum with their opinion and just by sheer volume and consistency of the message, if starts to read as popular (majority) opinion. In many cases this "truth" is really a very subjective issue, and the strong bias within the forum eclipses any counter point.

I'm not saying that your statement "There is no other way..." is opinion, necessarily, just that I'm wary of this as it's new to me, and frankly I've never heard it discussed by anyone in the pitching community locally, before. Prevailing instruction here where I am is very "traditional". I find myself asking: "If IR is so superior, how is it that it's not prevalent in the modern instruction of our youth?" Can it really be general ignorance?

But I am definitely intrigued and interested.

I am certainly no expert on the subject, just trying to learn all I can, and provide my DD with instruction that will help her be the best she can be. IR certainly looks to be an important consideration. I just need more first-person info in the form of noticeable results, before I go tooting my horn along with the rest of you, is all. Just being cautious...

You know what they say... (and many folks seem to forget): "Just because it's on the internet, doesn't mean it's true."

 

[I/R Whipped]

This is the exact position I find myself in...I hadn't gotten as far as the hello elbow PC yet, but I had been reinforcing the HE pitching mechanics during practice for about a year now, and of course now feel guilty as heck because it's going to make it harder to unlearn/relearn vs. just doing it "optimally" from the start...

I understand what you are saying and respect that. Just trying to save a few families the heartache of going down the wrong path early in the development of young pitchers. Several years ago before I read BMs internal rotation thread, I thought hello elbow and push the ball down the arm circle was the correct way to pitch since my DDs PC at the time played D1 and was booked with clients. I wrongly assumed she knew something about arm whip and the pitching motion. I was gravely mistaken. It wasn't until I did my own research and questioned what the expert pitching coaches were teaching that a light bulb went off that what my DD was being taught was killing her natural arm whip.

So ask a lot of questions and watch slow motion video of the pitching motion of the best pitchers in the world and compare and contrast that with what anyone tells you is the correct motion.

 

[abbygale]

If I had to do it over and had only one drill to start with on a fresh mind, it would be BM's bat drill. Clear, concise, it helps the arm perform the motion needed. After that, then I would go from the bat to the ball and whenever she got confused on the feeling, I would use the bat again. It's just a natural method of helping girls who don't have that much body awareness to feel what needs to happen. Heck, the bat does most of the work which is a good thing in the beginning when everything seems confusing. I would even use the bat drill to help her feel what happens when the back leg is weighted more than the front. I spent the first year with my daughter trying to show and tell. I could have saved her much aggravation by helping her feel it. It was the I?R thread which got her headed in the right direction but I think there is a lot of good in that bat drill.

 

[I/R Whipped]

Yep, we just started doing this one...I also like the modification suggested by another member where you substitute a pitching wedge...the club face adds another visual cue as to whether the wrist IR is happening or not (club face stays open with no IR, it closes up with IR)...and my DD golfs so this should be another drill that she should be able to relate to well

If I had to do it over and had only one drill to start with on a fresh mind, it would be BM's bat drill. Clear, concise, it helps the arm perform the motion needed. After that, then I would go from the bat to the ball and whenever she got confused on the feeling, I would use the bat again. It's just a natural method of helping girls who don't have that much body awareness to feel what needs to happen. Heck, the bat does most of the work which is a good thing in the beginning when everything seems confusing. I would even use the bat drill to help her feel what happens when the back leg is weighted more than the front. I spent the first year with my daughter trying to show and tell. I could have saved her much aggravation by helping her feel it. It was the I?R thread which got her headed in the right direction but I think there is a lot of good in that bat drill.

 

[I/R Whipped]

This is interesting and kind of funny! I will have to google a picture of that to make sure she gets it right if we decide to try it... Just so I understand correctly, Do you have her start with her pitching arm against the wall?

I was working on I/r release point with my dd today. I I had her stand against a wall with her pivot foot against the wall with her knee bent ala James dean. Then I told her to do a "ha-ha knee slapper" funny joke response. But to slap her raised thigh instead of her knee.
She seemed to understand it.

 

[Stand an]

This is interesting and kind of funny! I will have to google a picture of that to make sure she gets it right if we decide to try it... Just so I understand correctly, Do you have her start with her pitching arm against the wall?

Yes. Hand at nine o'clock and elbow down.

 

[BradB41]

I tend to agree that it is generally best not to blindly follow, especially an internet forum. But the case for IR (or whatever you want to call it) is pretty clear. You simply don't see many college pitchers who don't use IR. Occasionally it kind of looks like Ivy Renfro forces a hello elbow, but I still think she uses IR.

 

[Ken B]

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