Former players as PC

[Anthony Vertuccio]

Coach J You just said the men played fastpitch. So that's fine. But I would not want to learn any sport from someone who had not participated in it, or let's say a language from someone who has not spoken it in real life, but listened to a lot of tapes. And many people would disagree with you on whether the female pitching form is different from male pitching form or female hitting is different than male hitting.

so your daughter plays for females only? I do not have a daughter and I have been coaching for 10 years. I go on websites everyday and have taken some pitching lessons so I can know what I am talking about and I am former HS Varsity Coach and I now run my own Travel Organization! Your daughter wouldn't play for me?

 

[CoachFP]

There are tons of very good PC's that are men... not a single one of them have ever played a game of women's fastpitch... I know they may have played on a men's circuit, but as we all know women have a lot less upper body strength and their fore rely on their legs and core a lot more than men do. So in my opinion as long as the coach fully understands how to teach the correct mechanics for both safety and results it shouldn't matter if they've ever played or not...

Pitching is pitching. Yes the girls might not be as strong but the mechanics should be the same. Michael White relied on his legs tremendously and he is obviously not female.

 

[JAD]

In your experience....Do PCs that have played at higher levels in college make better PCs than players that have played at lower levels in college? What do you think?

Playing college softball at a high level will give a PC some credibility, but it does not make them a great PC. A great teacher did not have to be a great student.

 

[sleepwalker]

I would propose that there are several higher level pitchers, D1, who make it there because of their physical attributes and not their pitching skills or fundamentals. Several girls can bring it into the mid to high 60's and therefore find a spot on a higher level college team. Then there are several girls who get an opportunity to pitch at the lower levels in college who can't throw the ball in the 60's, yet have better mastery, fundamental, understanding, control and movement of their pitches.

Every year I take my dd to watch several college softball games to watch the pitchers and the game in general. I took her to a game a couple of years ago, when a highly touted freshman pitcher from the East Coast who threw in the high 60's to low 70's came to the area. She could bring the ball for sure, but her pitching mechanics, fundamentals and control were terrible. If this girl offered pitching lessons in a few years, there is no way that I would recommend her to my dd or yours, regardless of her win/loss record.

My personal opinion is that there are thousands of athletes that have great fundamentals and understandings of the game of softball, but don't get an opportunity to play at the higher levels in college because of their physical attributes. I would take their knowledge and skills towards teaching over many of the girls who played because of their physical gifts. Just my opinion.

 

[Classof2020]

To a 14yo student, a former college pitcher IS a high level pitcher no matter d1, d2 or whatever level. They are all big time pitchers to the kids.

One thing I have noticed having seen many instructors teach; the confidence level displayed and especially what they say and HOW they say it, that is HUGE. Saying "do this and the batter might / should do this". HUGE difference in saying that vs "When you do tyhis thne batter will do this". The young students feed off that level of confidence that exudes from their instructor. When they go into their game, especially the very young ones, their first bit of confidence is however much their instructor has given them.

Does pitching at a high level make you a good instructor? Crud no. Does being a good teacher thaat has been there and done that gives them an edge over one that has not? OOOOHHH YEAH, absolutely.

Give an instructor a chance to see what hey are made of and especially their ability to communicate at different age levels ability to understand. That is also huge.

I think you hit the nail on the head Hal. When someone has been in those situations you trust them and their advice in a different way. These gals that my daughter work with haven't been coaching for years and they are learning to coach at the same time that my daughter it learning to pitch really. But we give them room and research on our own and ask them questions and we work as a team.

But what is awesome is like you said when they share from their personal experiences. They say "It took me _______ long to learn that pitch" "I had to move my thumb over here to get the right spin" and "If you do that you need to be careful because once I dropped the ball and . . . " or they encourage them and say "Don't worry about only pitching in two games last weekend, a day will come when they will want you to pitch in 5 games and you'll tell them to forget it" Real game experience. Real authentic stories that the girls can learn from and be motivated by. Real heros that they can model themselves after. That can't be duplicated by any amount of learning and book knowledge.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

I'm more concerned with how the PC's students do than how the PC did as a player.

 

[coach james]

There are tons of very good PC's that are men... not a single one of them have ever played a game of women's fastpitch... I know they may have played on a men's circuit, but as we all know women have a lot less upper body strength and their fore rely on their legs and core a lot more than men do. So in my opinion as long as the coach fully understands how to teach the correct mechanics for both safety and results it shouldn't matter if they've ever played or not...

Pitching is pitching. Yes the girls might not be as strong but the mechanics should be the same. Michael White relied on his legs tremendously and he is obviously not female.

Mike White, Hillhouse, Earlywine... the list is huge of men who have been successful on a men's circuit as a pitcher and yes, they all use their legs to an extent... but to deny the fact their isn't a difference is either naive or just plain stupid and I dont think for a second your stupid. Call a spade a spade here. Men will almost always be much stronger in their upper body's and there fore require less lower half to achieve the same results. Im clocked at 58-60mph with just a simple step...no real leap at all. Its all muscle and whip.

 

[curiousgeorge]

coach james, first of all Earlywhine was not a pitcher in his playing days. He was an outfielder.

second, if you ask white, hillhouse (and even earlywhine) they will tell you the most successful of male pitchers all use their legs in dominant fashion. Just because a male has stronger upper body strength doesn't mean he's pitching "correctly". Sure he can get away with things that others cannot but that's not the point. I think you are sorely mistaken when you think the successful male pitchers did so with upper body strength. Heck, have you seen Hillhouse? he's not exactly a power lifter. And he is always harping on DD to get her legs into it more. And when we've gone to see him pitch and others at the men's fp tournaments, I see the same thing: massive amounts of legs. I think you are way off on this one.

cg

 

[Rocketech1]

coach james, first of all Earlywhine was not a pitcher in his playing days. He was an outfielder.

second, if you ask white, hillhouse (and even earlywhine) they will tell you the most successful of male pitchers all use their legs in dominant fashion. Just because a male has stronger upper body strength doesn't mean he's pitching "correctly". Sure he can get away with things that others cannot but that's not the point. I think you are sorely mistaken when you think the successful male pitchers did so with upper body strength. Heck, have you seen Hillhouse? he's not exactly a power lifter. And he is always harping on DD to get her legs into it more. And when we've gone to see him pitch and others at the men's fp tournaments, I see the same thing: massive amounts of legs. I think you are way off on this one.

cg

One thing Bill has that a lot of (but not all) pitchers have are large hands/fingers and arms to maximize leverage for speed and put more spin on the ball than the average height pitcher. They also have a bigger stride which puts them a little bit closer to the batter and decreases batter reaction time. Just look at some of the best female pitchers Sarah, Cat, Jennie, and Monica, they are all over 6 feet.

 

[David Hayes]

Coach J You just said the men played fastpitch. So that's fine. But I would not want to learn any sport from someone who had not participated in it, or let's say a language from someone who has not spoken it in real life, but listened to a lot of tapes. And many people would disagree with you on whether the female pitching form is different from male pitching form or female hitting is different than male hitting.

My daughters pitching coach played major league baseball for years and went to an expert to learn how to teach fastpitch, his game experience (world series) is invaluable for the mental side of the game. I can guarantee the pressure he has seen is much greater than any college softball player.