Cannonball
Ex "Expert"
- Feb 25, 2009
- 4,881
- 113
Andy, you are a smart guy!
Commish vs coach
- Thread starter BuckeyeGuy
- Start date
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- Sep 29, 2014
- 2,421
- 113
Wow...I have seen this movie before I was one of the coaches/parents on the receiving end going into a league with stacked commissioners team.
Either go TB or commit to rec.
If you are going to commit to rec...change your by-laws to a fairer process, especially AL and draft rules. Your AL season is starting to early. You don't have enough time to assess players. I'm sure you have lots of ideas but if your teams start out equally you usually don't have these issues. More later......
Either go TB or commit to rec.
If you are going to commit to rec...change your by-laws to a fairer process, especially AL and draft rules. Your AL season is starting to early. You don't have enough time to assess players. I'm sure you have lots of ideas but if your teams start out equally you usually don't have these issues. More later......
- Feb 7, 2013
- 3,188
- 48
First off, I appreciate you caring enough about the issue to ask for feedback. Most coaches/commissioners would blow this issue off and not try to learn from it.
With that said, your rec league and all star selection process is setting your organization up for failure. A few problems I see:
Families can request coaches? We stop that after 6u. Why, because parents get together and stack teams.
You need to have tryouts for all players and have a fair and equal process to select players at a draft.
You need good bylaws and stick to them. Ask other orgs how they conduct themselves and learn and modif yours accordingly.
At the end of the day, it's rec league and should be for all players development, meaning you should be attempting parity in the league.
There should be an all star draft and the top 12 players selected no matter who's team it is from.
As commissioner, you have a higher responsibly than anyone else in the league. Your coaching needs are secondary.
At the end of the day, create a fair environment and live with your decisions. While you can never please all the families, you need to develop a process that the families can respect the Boardmembers and coaches with the goal of doing the right thing.
Good luck.
With that said, your rec league and all star selection process is setting your organization up for failure. A few problems I see:
Families can request coaches? We stop that after 6u. Why, because parents get together and stack teams.
You need to have tryouts for all players and have a fair and equal process to select players at a draft.
You need good bylaws and stick to them. Ask other orgs how they conduct themselves and learn and modif yours accordingly.
At the end of the day, it's rec league and should be for all players development, meaning you should be attempting parity in the league.
There should be an all star draft and the top 12 players selected no matter who's team it is from.
As commissioner, you have a higher responsibly than anyone else in the league. Your coaching needs are secondary.
At the end of the day, create a fair environment and live with your decisions. While you can never please all the families, you need to develop a process that the families can respect the Boardmembers and coaches with the goal of doing the right thing.
Good luck.
I'm curious about this, and would appreciate a more detailed explanation. As i've explained before, we're not leaving the league, we're not running off to play TB. We simply did not contribute 2-3 players to a field of 32. I get all the other stuff, how it looks, and the things that I failed to consider when I did what I did. I don't know that I agree with it all, but I've learned that when everyone says you're wrong, 99% of the time they're right. I'm willing to admit it and take my lumps, but this needs clarification.
Rocket and dj, you are spot on. dj, I hope I've made clear that the team makeup was simply the result of my history of coaching. This would have been my team even if I wasn't commish.
First, let me define what I mean by "kids". I'm not talking about your specific kids or a single group of kids, but kids in the sense of the league as a whole.
Every league has an expectation. In yours it seems to be that every team will contribute a couple kids to the all-star team. This team(s) represent the best that the league has to offer from each team. These kids then go on to play in additional games, perhaps against each other, perhaps against outside teams....I'm not 100% clear on how your league works. But the main point is that it is a higher level of play than what the rest of the league can expect.
When you play against teams of higher skill, individual players and teams tend to elevate their level of play. Surround yourself with elites, and a mediocre player becomes good because they are working to keep up. The same thing holds true on a team level. Form a good team and play against other good teams and you get better. For a good team and play against bad teams and your team will get worse.
So, when I say you hurt the girls, it is because you are removing at a minimum (if I'm reading your all-star set-up correctly) 3 good players. Players so good that you were able to trounce almost every team in the league this year. These girls represent probably the best players in the league, correct? And you not only have 3 of them, according to the other coach's letter you had 5 former all-stars and by your own admission a total of 10 very good players and 2 mediocre players, so it probably wouldn't be a stretch to say that 8-10 of those players "deserve" to be on all-stars and the remaining players could very well be better than the entries from other teams. Furthermore, you state that all of your players decided to keep playing which means that ALL off them are available to play 3 out of 4 weekends that you require to be on all-stars. But lets keep it to the given rules....you eliminated probably 3 of the best players in the league from the pool. As commish (and considering your record), you probably could have made the case to include a couple more players from your team in all-stars had you wanted to keep the kids in the program, but that is getting a little far of field....
Bottom line: you eliminated at least 3 of the best players in the league pool from the all-star pool. The remaining all-star teams are now in a position where (if I'm understanding everything correctly) they have too many players for 2 teams, and too few for 3. So, not only is the level of play going to be lower because you withheld the top players, but the remaining teams are in a position where either some players sit the bench a large part of every game, or they completely cut several players in order to make the teams manageable.
In either case, the teams are in a position where they cannot be competitive while at the same time treating each player with the "honor" they are due for making the team. They have a lower overall skill level and too many players to manage. This will most likely result in a disappointing post-season.
And disappointed young players tend not to come back in the future.
So, when I say you have hurt the kids, I'm talking about the health of the overall organization, the ability for the kids to be successful, and the chance for those kids to improve their game by playing with and against superior players and teams.
I told you I get long-winded.
OK, I get what you're saying. Not sure I agree with the conclusion, but I get it.
In a perfect world, AS would be our best players. In reality, many of our best are not available for AS based on the 3/4 attendance requirement. One of the teams that contributed 1 player had its 3 best players turn down the selection based on not being able to make 3 of 4.
On the team front, it was a consideration to have 3 AS teams at 12U from our league. The other commish had a severe freak out when I brought it up, and I'm not exaggerating. She sounded nearly hysterical about scheduling for 5 teams instead of 4. We were only going to have 2 12U teams from our league regardless.
But yes, I kept 2 or 3 of the best 12U players out of AS.
As a counterpoint here, neither of my division managers seem to think anything negative about what I'm doing. I'm not excusing myself - I still think you guys are right in your thought processes that I screwed this up. Just an interesting observation.
In a perfect world, AS would be our best players. In reality, many of our best are not available for AS based on the 3/4 attendance requirement. One of the teams that contributed 1 player had its 3 best players turn down the selection based on not being able to make 3 of 4.
On the team front, it was a consideration to have 3 AS teams at 12U from our league. The other commish had a severe freak out when I brought it up, and I'm not exaggerating. She sounded nearly hysterical about scheduling for 5 teams instead of 4. We were only going to have 2 12U teams from our league regardless.
But yes, I kept 2 or 3 of the best 12U players out of AS.
As a counterpoint here, neither of my division managers seem to think anything negative about what I'm doing. I'm not excusing myself - I still think you guys are right in your thought processes that I screwed this up. Just an interesting observation.
- Nov 29, 2009
- 2,975
- 83
Buckeye,
I've read most of the responses to your situation this year. As you admitted, you messed up due to inexperience. It happens to "rookies" in all endeavors. Especially when your mentor left you in the lurch. There is not too much I can offer that hasn't been. Now learn from it.
Here is what you need to do. Do not make the rec ball league mistake of using a short calender. You need to adjust your calendar to 3 years out. Know where you're taking the league instead of it steering you. For you it's 2016 when the last pitch of the AS season is thrown. You need to decide if you're going to do a tryout for the AS teams of girls who are willing to make the full commitment to AS's. Figure out team numbers, roster sizes and how the coaches are going to be selected. Now when you start your fall meetings with the other league officials you have your agenda set and defined. What I have found with most rec leagues is they are reactionary instead of being proactive with their thinking. You'll be facing an uphill battle with that.
Don't think you have time to do things. Have a sense of urgency in your planning. The 2016 deadline will be upon you before you know it. Once everyone knows what you're planning, they will have time to adjust to your system.
One other suggestion. Why don't you do a travel team from the girls who want to make the commitment? You don't need to play a top level schedule, but you should be able to play something the stronger players in your league may want. Some will see it as stripping the best talent from the league. Others will see it as an opportunity for the stronger players to expand their abilities. Either way you'll have push back from both sides. As the Captain of the ship you need to decide what's best for the league as a whole and set the direction the program is going to take.
Good Luck
I've read most of the responses to your situation this year. As you admitted, you messed up due to inexperience. It happens to "rookies" in all endeavors. Especially when your mentor left you in the lurch. There is not too much I can offer that hasn't been. Now learn from it.
Here is what you need to do. Do not make the rec ball league mistake of using a short calender. You need to adjust your calendar to 3 years out. Know where you're taking the league instead of it steering you. For you it's 2016 when the last pitch of the AS season is thrown. You need to decide if you're going to do a tryout for the AS teams of girls who are willing to make the full commitment to AS's. Figure out team numbers, roster sizes and how the coaches are going to be selected. Now when you start your fall meetings with the other league officials you have your agenda set and defined. What I have found with most rec leagues is they are reactionary instead of being proactive with their thinking. You'll be facing an uphill battle with that.
Don't think you have time to do things. Have a sense of urgency in your planning. The 2016 deadline will be upon you before you know it. Once everyone knows what you're planning, they will have time to adjust to your system.
One other suggestion. Why don't you do a travel team from the girls who want to make the commitment? You don't need to play a top level schedule, but you should be able to play something the stronger players in your league may want. Some will see it as stripping the best talent from the league. Others will see it as an opportunity for the stronger players to expand their abilities. Either way you'll have push back from both sides. As the Captain of the ship you need to decide what's best for the league as a whole and set the direction the program is going to take.
Good Luck
Could not agree more, Sparky. I am going to start meeting with folks in the next 2 weeks (umpire scheduler, field schedulers, association prez, coaches).
- Nov 29, 2009
- 2,975
- 83
Your opening line of the meeting needs to set the tone. It should be something like "Hello Everyone, here is what we are doing next year." and then go from there. Everyone will have "suggestions" or you'll get the "We've always done it this way." from a few. Always listen, just don't commit to anything until you've had time to digest it. Often you'll find ulterior motives for exceptions.
I was involved with a rec program for a short time. Every time someone wanted to change things one woman would always say the "league rules" say it has to be done this way. I asked for a copy of the rules, but never got any. Go figure...
