College DP / Flex Rule

[Westwind]

Not sure how this applies? Bahl was playing defense (she was pitching) and pinch hit for someone other than the DP.

Because at the time she hit she was no longer the flex.

They subbed her into the game. Because she started she gets one re-entry And all the defensive changes you want to make.

A pitcher that can hit and play another defensive position is prime for this kind of scheme.

What messes us up is we cant see all the substitutions. The first substitution probably happened at the plate meeting. Bahl probably started in the flex, got subbed to rf to hit, the right fielder gets subbed back in with her re-entry and then Bahl goes back to flex. There is also probably a “starter” listed on the lineup card that was never on the field.

I’m no rocket scientist and I have been trying to figure this out for 3 years. DD’s coach does this and the players sometimes wonder how a player can still be in hitting lineup. This is so complicated that a college coach that has been doing this for years gets herself in trouble with it a couple times per year.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

Because at the time she hit she was no longer the flex.

They subbed her into the game. Because she started she gets one re-entry And all the defensive changes you want to make.

A pitcher that can hit and play another defensive position is prime for this kind of scheme.

What messes us up is we cant see all the substitutions. The first substitution probably happened at the plate meeting. Bahl probably started in the flex, got subbed to rf to hit, the right fielder gets subbed back in with her re-entry and then Bahl goes back to flex. There is also probably a “starter” listed on the lineup card that was never on the field.

I’m no rocket scientist and I have been trying to figure this out for 3 years. DD’s coach does this and the players sometimes wonder how a player can still be in hitting lineup. This is so complicated that a college coach that has been doing this for years gets herself in trouble with it a couple times per year.

Baseball is so much easier to figure out. You're removed from the game, and you're out for the rest of the game. You get pinch hit for, you're out of the game. Pinch runner? Out of the game.

 

[CoachJD]

Because at the time she hit she was no longer the flex.

They subbed her into the game. Because she started she gets one re-entry And all the defensive changes you want to make.

A pitcher that can hit and play another defensive position is prime for this kind of scheme.

What messes us up is we cant see all the substitutions. The first substitution probably happened at the plate meeting. Bahl probably started in the flex, got subbed to rf to hit, the right fielder gets subbed back in with her re-entry and then Bahl goes back to flex. There is also probably a “starter” listed on the lineup card that was never on the field.

I’m no rocket scientist and I have been trying to figure this out for 3 years. DD’s coach does this and the players sometimes wonder how a player can still be in hitting lineup. This is so complicated that a college coach that has been doing this for years gets herself in trouble with it a couple times per year.

Another problem is that college broadcasts will often call whichever player in the lineup not currently on the field the DP. The DP doesn't change. If the DP goes in to play LF, the LF doesn't "become" the DP. This, I presume is why NCAA has the OP designation, but 99% of the announcers don't understand it. So on a broadcast, you'll hear them say someone is the DP and now you're thinking "Well, the Flex hit for a different hitter. How is that legal?"

You're right about the subs, too. A few times I have put a girl who is very unlikely to play at all on the lineup card as a starter for similar reasons (or because I want that 10th spot available later just in case), but she never knew it and our dugout lineup board doesn't list her in the starting spot.

Random aside: According to NCAA, that phantom player does not get credited with a game played in the stats (if they don't re-enter and actually play), but they do get charged with a game played for eligibility purposes.

 

[Crabby_Bob]

As CoachJD alludes, the box score in question makes more sense if Torres is the DP and, at the plate meeting, she moves into F9 and Lee becomes the OP. I have not seen designation in the play-by-play for a player becoming OP, just musical chairs for position changes. The <crappy> broadcast doesn't set the Oklahoma defense or offense.

 

[clarity]

Because at the time she hit she was no longer the flex.

They subbed her into the game. Because she started she gets one re-entry And all the defensive changes you want to make.

A pitcher that can hit and play another defensive position is prime for this kind of scheme.

What messes us up is we cant see all the substitutions. The first substitution probably happened at the plate meeting. Bahl probably started in the flex, got subbed to rf to hit, the right fielder gets subbed back in with her re-entry and then Bahl goes back to flex. There is also probably a “starter” listed on the lineup card that was never on the field.

I’m no rocket scientist and I have been trying to figure this out for 3 years. DD’s coach does this and the players sometimes wonder how a player can still be in hitting lineup. This is so complicated that a college coach that has been doing this for years gets herself in trouble with it a couple times per year.

Is the college DP/flex rule different than NFHS?

 

[Westwind]

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Softball/Softball_Rules.pdf

20/21 rules…. Starts on Page 65, i wish you luck figuring it all out!

 

[CoachJD]

Is the college DP/flex rule different than NFHS?

I don't think so, but I believe in NCAA only starters have a re-entry, so that does change how the rule can be utilized.

 

[clarity]

The Ohio High School Athletic Association (which governs high school sports in Ohio) put out guidance a few weeks ago emphasizing that a player who is/was a flex can only ever bat in the same position in the order as the DP (which was always my understanding anyway).

 

[The Man In Blue]

Been holding off on saying anything until there was more clarification. Seems as if we aren't getting much.

Using the current '22-23 NCAA book:

8.1.2.4 Designated Player (DP). The player who is initially listed on the lineup card in the team’s batting order but not in the defensive lineup. (See Rule 8.2.)

8.1.2.6 Flex. The player who is initially listed in the 10th spot on the lineup card who may play any defensive position and may only enter the game on offense in the designated player’s spot in the batting order. (See Rule 8.2.)

8.1.2.7 Offense Player (OP). The player in the batting order who is not playing defense because the DP has entered to play defense.

Without going into the entire set of DP/Flex rules, everything you need is above.

The Flex can ONLY come in to bat in the spot listed for the DP. The Flex is a starting position and cannot sub in to another batting spot. The Flex can go play any place on the field and can come and go freely on defense only. Each change still has to be reported to the umpire. Even if the Flex goes to a different defensive position (that player is displaced and becomes the OP - offensive player), the Flex cannot bat in that player's batting spot.

 

[Westwind]

I am truly baffled how some of the college coaches move players around.