Can runner advance?

[Umpire]

We need to get this clarification included in the rulebook. I've seen too many misinformed umpires call runners out for this.

I should note that NCAA has different rules for the look back scenarios. I won't address those difference here since the rule creates enough confusion for the codes (ASA, Federation, PONY, etc) that most are familiar with.

Unfortunately, most rule books place this information in the Points of Emphasis or Rules Supplement and not in the rules themselves. There is, I believe, a good reason for it though. The LBR has its own entire section under "The baserunner is out." The exceptions (when not to call the runner out) are too long to enumerate and aren't listed under "The baserunner is NOT out."

There are also some small difference between ASA and PONY. When the batter-runner is committed to return to 1st base because of her actions after overrunning the base, she must do so non-stop. PONY just says she must return to the base.

Every umpire test/quiz I have helped write over the years has included at least one of these plays.

In 1994, the umpires misinterpreted the rule and misapplied it when the batter-runner rounded 1st base, continued non-stop about 40 feet toward 2nd base, stopped, and immediately continued to 2nd base. The umpires called the runner out. We ended up protesting the game and had Bristol on the phone until it was almost dark because the umpires kept changing the facts to suit their call. Ultimately, the call was overturned.

 

[cmustangsfp]

So does the LBR obligate the batter-runner to second base if they commit? In other words once they have made the move to second do they have to proceed or if there is an attempt to put them out at second can they change course?
The reason I ask this is because I have seen several runners continue running and run into the tag at second, when they possibly could have changed course and got into a pickle.

 

[honus14]

So does the LBR obligate the batter-runner to second base if they commit? In other words once they have made the move to second do they have to proceed or if there is an attempt to put them out at second can they change course?
The reason I ask this is because I have seen several runners continue running and run into the tag at second, when they possibly could have changed course and got into a pickle.

If there's a play on any runner, the LBR is off. Runner can do what she wants.

If there's no play, the runner can always stop once, and then "immediately" pick a direction; then she's committed to the direction she picks (assuming all the other conditions of the LBR apply).

 

[GI Tom]

And to further add to honus' post above, a pitcher in the circle with the ball who does anything that an official considers even attempting to make a play (raising an arm, moving in direction of runner with ball, etc), removes the LBR. I have this happen often where the pitcher cocks her arm but doesn't throw and I take off the LBR. It can be off and on multiple times with the same runner.

 

[Umpire]

I can't figure out how to do attachments on here. Maybe we can't.

If anyone wants a document I created years ago that breaks down the LBR and includes 6 diagrams, private message me and I can send it to you.

 

[MTR]

And to further add to honus' post above, a pitcher in the circle with the ball who does anything that an official considers even attempting to make a play (raising an arm, moving in direction of runner with ball, etc), removes the LBR. I have this happen often where the pitcher cocks her arm but doesn't throw and I take off the LBR. It can be off and on multiple times with the same runner.

Simply moving toward a runner is nothing. The pitcher making a play on the runner, leaving the circle or losing possession of the ball in the circle removes application of the LBR

 

[CJ D]

Depending on the interpretation of the umpire...in USFA I e had umpires tell me raising an arm is an attempt. Others have said they have to throw the ball......of course, USFA has disappointed me quite a bit with their "requirements" to umpire games...$30 and a valid drivers license. You think that may be why at our state tournament a few weeks ago the tournament director....at the state tournament mind you....told me that in order for a girl to be out when hitting a ball "outside of the box", that she had to have her entire body, both feet, outside if the box...we had our slowest pitcher in with girls starting on the front line and stepping out hitting the ball. Not an out he said....both feet had to be out....this was after I brought it to the plate umpire that it was occurring and he wiped the line out with his foot and said "Now! It's my judgement now cause there is no box!" Same guy also started telling the girls who came to bat to back up in the box instead of making the call. But I digress.....I'm off topic. Lol.