Umpires owe it to players to know the rules and to apply them correctly.
Another Infield Fly Rule Experience
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Greenmonsters
Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Here's a serious question, really. Can a coach protest a game after they have been ejected? My guess is no, that it would have to be done by the acting coach as the head coach lost that privilege/responsibility upon ejection. And can the other team's coach protest that an initial protest was improperly filed? FTR, I'm asking for a friend 
- Feb 3, 2011
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That's not true. There is a fair way to correct the error and the rules grant the umpires that authority.
Also, your point about MLB 'seeing it the way you do' is also untrue. Jim Joyce made a judgment call on that play and he was the only umpire who was in position to make the call. He saw what he saw and he called it as such. He did not admit his error until he saw the replay.
Tennessee Middle School rules will not allow a Protest.
Besides I had already been threatened to be tossed from the tournament (earlier) because a batter cocked her helmet back on her head as she came into the dugout after striking out.
- Jun 22, 2008
- 3,438
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Okay, let's clear some things up. To start, this is one of, if not THE, simplest rules in the book, so I don't know how umpires can screw things up. OTOH, apparently many others seem just as confused, so to avoid the IM's let me state the following which may dispell some of the myths or ignorance concerning the rule:
The dirt and grass have ZERO relevance on any discussion involving the terms infield and/or outfield;
The IF is declared, preferably at the apex of the ball's arc on ANY fair fly ball that is not a line drive or bunt which can be caught by any infielder, pitcher or catcher with ordinary effort. The umpire needs to make that determination based on observation/knowledge of the infielders involved. Failing to get to the area of the ball may be an indication it is not an IF, but the infielder simply failing to go after the ball does not negate the rule. The infielders' failure to catch the ball or where it lands is irrelevant. Failing to chase a pop-up does not negate the rule if the umpire believes s/he could have made the play with normal effort. If the parameters of the rule are met and the umpire calls an IF, the batter-runner is out even if the ball carries deeper than expected.
If the umpire fails to make the IF call, it may be applied after the fact. If a runner advanced safely, that advance is permitted to stand. If a runner is retired due to the delay in the ruling, that runner is placed on the base the umpire. This is only if the out was the effect of the delayed ruling. If the runner had attained the next base safely and is retired afterwards, the runner will probably remain out.
If the umpire mistakenly rules an IF when it doesn't apply, both teams are protected to the level of negating the error. If the ball is caught, the BR should be ruled out; If not, awarded 1B. If caught, runners properly appealed for leaving early will remain out. Those who tag up properly and attempt to advance do so at their own peril. Any runner retired because they did not advance as forced remain on the base at the TOP unless forced due to an award to the BR. During this period, the ball remains live. Any corrective action is applied after all play is completed.
The ONLY fair method to apply this rule is to do so properly as directed by the rule, mechanics and interpretation. Only when someone tries to alter the effect is when it becomes unfair to one or both parties.
The dirt and grass have ZERO relevance on any discussion involving the terms infield and/or outfield;
The IF is declared, preferably at the apex of the ball's arc on ANY fair fly ball that is not a line drive or bunt which can be caught by any infielder, pitcher or catcher with ordinary effort. The umpire needs to make that determination based on observation/knowledge of the infielders involved. Failing to get to the area of the ball may be an indication it is not an IF, but the infielder simply failing to go after the ball does not negate the rule. The infielders' failure to catch the ball or where it lands is irrelevant. Failing to chase a pop-up does not negate the rule if the umpire believes s/he could have made the play with normal effort. If the parameters of the rule are met and the umpire calls an IF, the batter-runner is out even if the ball carries deeper than expected.
If the umpire fails to make the IF call, it may be applied after the fact. If a runner advanced safely, that advance is permitted to stand. If a runner is retired due to the delay in the ruling, that runner is placed on the base the umpire. This is only if the out was the effect of the delayed ruling. If the runner had attained the next base safely and is retired afterwards, the runner will probably remain out.
If the umpire mistakenly rules an IF when it doesn't apply, both teams are protected to the level of negating the error. If the ball is caught, the BR should be ruled out; If not, awarded 1B. If caught, runners properly appealed for leaving early will remain out. Those who tag up properly and attempt to advance do so at their own peril. Any runner retired because they did not advance as forced remain on the base at the TOP unless forced due to an award to the BR. During this period, the ball remains live. Any corrective action is applied after all play is completed.
The ONLY fair method to apply this rule is to do so properly as directed by the rule, mechanics and interpretation. Only when someone tries to alter the effect is when it becomes unfair to one or both parties.
So what is the "fair" way to correct this particular error in your opinion? My way is to let the play stand the way it played out. The umpires didn't call it correctly initially, so it can't be fixed.
My point about the botched perfect game was that the umpire's call, while obviously wrong, wasn't overturned. Mistakes happen in games. It's a part of the game. Umpires shouldn't compound issues by changing things after the fact.
- Jun 22, 2008
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Do you know why the umpire made the call he did? I do and saw it immediately the first time I saw the video. BTW, to the trained eye, it wasn't THAT obvious.
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Really? I think the 40,000 fans in the stands would disagree with that statement. It was a jaw-dropping bad call at a critical point in the game that changed the game. The batter was out by a full step.
- Jun 22, 2008
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That's pretty good since the attendence was only 17,738 and I really don't care what a fan in the stand thinks. He missed the call and I can understand why. I haven't heard his excuse/apology, really don't care, but I assume he stated that he thought the runner beat the pitcher catching the ball. What else is an MLB umpire going to say. Richie Garcia proved talking to the press is just going to cause more issues than not.
Watch the replay. You will see the throw hit the pocket area of the glove then run up toward the top of the webbing (enough that a view from the plate area shows the white of the ball at the top of the glove) and then the pitcher pull the glove up and across as if trying to insure control of the ball. During this period the runner contacted the base
Please note, I'm not suggesting the call was correct or that there was a valid excuse for missing it other than plain misjudgment. I'm just pointing out actions by the pitcher that could have thrown off the umpire's timing and affected that judgment.
MLB umpires change calls on a regular basis. The ump whose call it was has to ask for the help. Then they get in a group and discuss what happened. If the other umps convince him that he made a mistake the call is changed, by the umps on the field before the game continues. Joyce chose to not ask for help. It was his call and he was confident it was correct. What Bud Selig did or didn't do the next day is irrelevant to the conversation as he is not an umpire and his decision was after the conclusion of the game. In the IF rule issue here, the umps made a complete screw up of the rule. Not because they chose to make a "correction" but because they did not know the rule and applied it incorrectly in more then 1 way.
