Absolute vs Nice to Have?

[knightsb]

^^^^^^^ that's why I am still waiting on your book

 

[FrozenRope]

FrozenRope,
Do you have any current video of DD? I don't like the idea of changing a comfortable stride length to improve timing, but without seeing her, it's tough to comment.

Hey Ken, I'm sorry, but I don't have any recent video of her. The last video I took is about 2 months old. I used to record EVERY session, then sit upstairs, take notes, and go over what I saw with DD the next time she worked out. TORTURE for BOTH of us. I've since built a comfortable trust with her PC through questioning her motive behind every drill, or exercise, or comment and learned what to look for full speed during her workouts to give her feedback, real time.

It's amazing the progress she's made without the nut on the bucket recording every pitch and analyzing it to the smallest detail. (I take credit for being the nut) Not being rude, but I wasn't looking for feedback. I see real time, the improvement it made. It was more to share the experince I had as a DAD, not a PC. I see in almost every post regarding a young pitcher that someone tells the parent to get her to explode off the mound. Lengthen her stride. Sorry to those that love the theory that a long stride is a good stride. I disagree. Lengthening the stride will not fix problems with the initiation of the pitch. It will not fix timing issues. All it does is create a pitcher with timing problems that happens to stride farther than the girl whose parent didn't read that post.

As for the gist of my post. The main thing to think about is this. I am talking about a 10 year old, with 7 months of pitching experience. To ME, more important than driving 7 or 8 footsteps, or 125% of her height for a beginning pitcher, is for her to learn to drive off to the open position with the best mechanics possible. We're not teaching the long jump. We're teaching the softball pitch. The progression of extending the stride and working on drills to improve the explosion off the mound comes AFTER they actually understand what the explosion should feel like.

 

[FrozenRope]

Turning the pivot foot loses leg drive huh. Somebody needs to tell all the MLB pitchers about that. They put the side of their pivot foot against the front edge of the rubber, 90 degrees to the plate.

They must not have any leg drive AT ALL!

Please tell me you're joking. I'm a firm believer that a moderate pivot foot turn actually promotes the proper throwing position of the hips and shoulders. I just disagree with your anaology. This is like comparing the aircraft carrier launch of Pete Mitchell's F-15 to to the take-off of a small cessna. I call apples to grapefruits as the comparison here. Hal, can you show me some video of Mariano Rivera leaping and dragging?

 

[Ken B]

Sorry to those that love the theory that a long stride is a good stride. I disagree. Lengthening the stride will not fix problems with the initiation of the pitch. It will not fix timing issues. All it does is create a pitcher with timing problems that happens to stride farther than the girl whose parent didn't read that post.

I agree and disagree, but it depends on each kid. Good mechanics and timing result in long stride, but the length is relative to each kid. I adjust stride length to compliment a kid’s timing, but more often adjust a kid’s timing to compliment a good stride. It’s one of those decisions made with first hand observation. That’s why I asked for a video.

I see real time, the improvement it made.

That’s the bottom line.

 

[Ken B]

^^^^^^^ that's why I am still waiting on your book

I'll take the video.

 

[curiousgeorge]

One of the first thing Bill did when we started to see him is explain that sometimes we will exaggerate to the extreme to break a bad habit. This pivot foot thing came up not too long ago for us. We were at our lesson at an indoor facility. My DD was turning her foot nearly sideways and Bill put the device down on our pitching mat to prevent it. He specifically said she is allowed to turn it a little but that she was doing it WAYYYYYY too much. The device was aimed at cutting it down. DD threw with it several times and kicked it off the rubber many times. Eventually when she got the hang of it, Bill took it off the rubber and said now pitch. She did and her foot turned slightly. Being the Dad that I am, I immediately saw the foot turning and thought she was doing it wrong. I was corrected immediately that we are going to give her a little room to wiggle and the goal was to cut down the twist so her entire body wasn't turning, which it was. This fits directly in line with BM's notion of allowing some degree of movement. Bill did not say 10-20 degrees but that's about what it was in retrospect. Bill said, in his opinion, this happens a lot in cold weather places where people pitch indoors a lot and don't pitch off an actual rubber (pitching mats do not count). And it's not entirely a bad sign because it means she's trying to push off something but being indoors there's nothing to push from. Once it got straightened out, she was using her body much more efficiently. Based off what I'm reading, Bill and BM despite being 3000 miles apart are both doing the same thing. The other example of exaggerating that we did was fixing her bullet spin at release. DD was forced to keep the ball facing 3rd base as long as possible at the top of the circle, not allowed to bend, cup or twist her wrist at all during the arm circle. This exaggeration helped her get into proper position at the release point for correct 6-12 rotation on her fastball. (Yes, I said fastball since I know Bill isn't reading this and won't yell at me for using the "f-word" ha ha ha).

CG

 

[Alan Snedeker]

Frozen Rope and KenB

In regards to the stride length:

I'm with FrozenRope on this one. You absolutely can stride too far. You CAN NOT push off too hard though. There is a difference.
I view the stride as how far you stretch your plant foot out once you have pushed off. If you stretch your leg out as far as you can to plant "doing the splits" then this will absolutely affect your timing and balance.

 

[Perfect Circle]

I use the three inches shorter than their height as my #... not 125%. I use the measurement of the hands spread out as far as they go, and measure end of index to index. If the span is 2 inches less than height... you dont have a pitcher. I had DD step off six steps of her shoe size when in a hurry.

The problem with all this exploding stuff, is its just the lack of coil... We have made girls.... leap thru the hoops... so to speak. No negative resistance... nothing she is learning other than toe drag... that see can take to batting practice... Not me anymore.

Im starting my own style, this summer, Dropping DD in Rec to get some video's of her Ks. Keeping her in the traditional 10uTB, but will be playing 12u-14u rec as well, to stench to the 40' and 12 inch ball a little early...and She will have coil....in her overhand throwing,hitting & pitching...WERE ALL WRONG :{))

Video said a MILLION words

 

[Ken B]

Frozen Rope and KenB

In regards to the stride length:

I'm with FrozenRope on this one. You absolutely can stride too far. You CAN NOT push off too hard though. There is a difference.
I view the stride as how far you stretch your plant foot out once you have pushed off. If you stretch your leg out as far as you can to plant "doing the splits" then this will absolutely affect your timing and balance.

I agree and now tend to trust his PC's decision. Without seeing it first hand my initial skepticism led me to ask for a video. I've seen and heard several folks try to shorten/lengthen a stride just because. It's good to hear success stories like FR's.

 

[Ken B]

I use the three inches shorter than their height as my #... not 125%. I use the measurement of the hands spread out as far as they go, and measure end of index to index. If the span is 2 inches less than height... you dont have a pitcher. I had DD step off six steps of her shoe size when in a hurry.

I'm not sure there is a magic stride length formula.