Absolute vs Nice to Have?

[knightsb]

You will be encouraged during this transfer (rocker motion) to allow the pivot foot to turn 10-25 degrees open to initiate the push. This position more closely aligns the pivot foot knee with the pelvis as it opens during the stride.......

All this talk of keeping the pivot foot, and by default, pivot foot knee facing the catcher makes me cringe...........You will NEVER see me using a device that forces and pivot/knee facing forward as the hips turn open.......

Please people.......USE COMMON SENSE.........If you want the hips to open during the stride........Why the HELL wouldn't you want the pivot foot and pivot foot knee to align with this goal for maximum bio-mechanical and structural support......

Between this bad information, and the Hello Elbow delivery, we're successfully managing to RUIN many young students.......

BM, you above anyone else, have enlightened us about pitching on this site, so it is with all due respect I ask which of these pitchers has the pivot foot orientation and pivot knee orientation that you teach? From what I see, all but Pauly start with a fairly straight pivot foot, and knee oriented toward the catcher. Even with a straight pivot foot, I see they are all able to open their hips.

[video=youtube_share;955k3WCDlY4]http://youtu.be/955k3WCDlY4[/video]

 

[Ken B]

Is that Pauly's regular stride? Seems like she loads well, then just steps out.

 

[knightsb]

Is that Pauly's regular stride? Seems like she loads well, then just steps out.

That's the only clip I have of her that close from the side.

 

[halskinner]

Boardmemb

I have never confirmed this but a few UICs over the years have said that the 'Rocker motion' was when the pitcher shifted the weight backl and the pivot foot lost contactr with the rubber. THAT was what they called the 'Rocker motion' and they considered it an IP because of the lost contact.

The 'legal rock back' keeps the pivot foot in contact as the pivot heel comes up and the pivot knee bends as the upper body weight quickly shifts back and then forward as tyhe push off starts. The weight of the pivot leg out in front is the counter-balance for the weight of the upper body shifting back.

From what I have seen over the years, pitchers that bring the pivot toes up, simply shove their rear end back, bend forward at the waist and then drive forward coming up from that forward bend at the waist. No real shift of the center of body weight going on there.

The 'Legal rock back' most certainly does shift the center of body weight back and then quickly forward. It;s like a one-step run through to develop speed for the forward drive. I wish I had more room when I made this video years ago so it would show the entire body doing the rock back but this is what I have that shows the footwork.

 

[BoardMember]

Okay people.........Regarding the pivot foot.........Read what I wrote, especially the bolded part:

allow the pivot foot to turn 10-25 degrees open to initiate the push.

I don't have access to my clips and clip editor here at work........But if you'd like.......And you just can't wait......

Fast forward this clip to 34 seconds and begin watching what the foot does to initiate the push-off........



Fast forward this next clip to the 9 second mark and pay VERY CLOSE attention to the pivot orientation when stepping onto the powerdrive.......BY ALL 7 PITCHERS.........

Softball Power Drive - YouTube

Watch Cat's pivot foot open between 10-20 degrees TO INITIATE THE PUSH..........

Cat Osterman pitching to Daytona State - YouTube

I could go ON AND ON AND ON with example after example after example.........Of Pitchers who allow the pivot foot to open 10-20 degrees TO INITIATE the push..........

Regarding transfer........As I'd laid out here before. My pitchers are taught to get up on the front leg, to take the sign.......Rock back to the rear leg to plant stride foot heel.......THEN initiate the forward push OVER THE TOP OF/THEN FORWARD FROM the pitchers plate.........This requires the use of BOTH LEGS to start the sequence.........First the back leg then the front leg.........Go back and watch the Cat clip........My pitchers are taught the same principle starting mechanics..........Start forward.......Get Back.......And Drive forward.......

I see SO MANY people post here that they cannot get the leg drive out of their DD's or students they'd like........And IMO it's because there's so much advise that focuses in the ONLY the pivot foot push..........

Here's why my pitchers are so good at leg drive........Because they are moving forward ACROSS THE PLATE BEFORE the pivot foot reaches MAXIMUM push-off force FROM THE PLATE........

My pitchers do not fight inertia.........In any part of their delivery........

 

[RubberBiscuit]

My pitchers do not fight inertia.........In any part of their delivery........

Hallelujah BM.

So this great statement, from my perspective, needs to also stifle the dramatic anti-swimmer passion out there! Teach throwing with yer back against a wall!?!? Just don't see anything good coming from this.

To me the same craziness of a strict-straight 0 degree push-foot applies to any unnatural expectation of the glove ever going off the power-line post a good glove-shove for forward momentum.

Both are unnatural corrective actions.

 

[bobbyb]

Here is Finch Turning From The Sports Science Video

 

[JJ Hammer]

Thats enough to drive you bonkers

 

[bobbyb]

That is a annoying! I was going to show Cat and the small turn Scarborough makes but photobucket just isn't right tonight.

 

[FrozenRope]

With regard to the rotation of the pivot foot, I think it's natural for the foot to turn slightly. I've heard people use the reference of a sprinter coming out of the blocks, that they do not turn their foot to drive out, so that must be the most effective push. I took that and applied some logic. I have yet to EVER see a sprinter come out of the blocks with the ultimate goal of turning his/her hips 90 degrees to an open position. It's not an apples to apples comparison. What my daughter is being taught, whether right or wrong, is to get to the open position hard and fast. She wants her opening as part of the push. She's trying to prevent her from a long and lazy "open". Her thoughts are if the stride is too long for her level, and the open is late, it slows the arm circle. In fact, I questioned her when she forced DD's stride to shorten by placing a bucket 3 inches short of where she was landing with her stride foot. She told her push off just as hard, but turn and get that foot down before it hits the bucket and speed up the arm circle to get rid of the ball faster. I nearly went nuts at the lesson, thinking I knew everything. But once again, when I questioned her, she made perfect sense. DD was long and lazy. With the bucket, she was forced to get open and whip the arm faster. As she got the feel for open hard, she moved the bucket further out. In my opinion. a slight turn of the foot is optimal in order to achive this hard open. We bought in and have seen nothing but improvement in her arm circle, momentum, and velocity as a result.