1st/safety base

[bills9r]

I need opinions on this situation please.

We are on offense.

We have a runner on 2nd.

2 outs. Bottom of last inning.

Our batter hits grounder to the second base side of F3.

F3 fields ball, and turns to run to first to attempt the force at first.

Our runner arrives on safety base at same time F3 arrives at first, however.....

F3 steps on both white and orange bases and knocks our runner over,

Runner was called out by plate umpire, base umpire was over behind short stop..

1. Is Runner safe or out based on F3 using both bases?

2. Is there obstruction?

3. Should umpire stay on field until injured runner is deemed ok? (Umpires both left field after calling third out. I had to ask them to come back to field for protest.)

Thnk you for your input.

 

[BretMan]

1. If F3 touched any portion of the white base before the runner touched the colored base, then the runner is out.

If F3 had touched ONLY the colored base, then the runner would have been safe. No rule calls the runner automatically safe if the fielder happens to touch both bases at once.

2. If F3 was in possession of the ball, then by rule it can't be obstruction.

3. When the game is over, the umpires should leave the field. Injured players are the responsibility of their coaches/parents.

After the umpires have left the field, it is too late to file a protest.

 

[MTR]

I need opinions on this situation please.

We are on offense.

We have a runner on 2nd.

2 outs. Bottom of last inning.

Our batter hits grounder to the second base side of F3.

F3 fields ball, and turns to run to first to attempt the force at first.

It is not a force

Our runner arrives on safety base at same time F3 arrives at first, however.....

F3 steps on both white and orange bases and knocks our runner over,

Whichever player touched their respective base first is successful. Touching both bases means.....the proper base was touched.

Runner was called out by plate umpire, base umpire was over behind short stop..

Not the proper mechanic, but that does not negate the call

1. Is Runner safe or out based on F3 using both bases?

No. Why would you think that it does.

2. Is there obstruction?

It is impossible to have OBS with the fielder in question in possession of the ball

3. Should umpire stay on field until injured runner is deemed ok? (Umpires both left field after calling third out. I had to ask them to come back to field for protest.)

The umpires should leave the field when the game is over. If you wanted to protest (which there was no valid protest available), you should have done it immediately

 

[bills9r]

It is not a force

Just wondering what you call the out at first by touching it? The batter runner HAS to go to first, and if the Defender touches it while in control of the ball, before the runner arrives, the runner is automaticlly out. I've always called it a "force".

Whichever player touched their respective base first is successful. Touching both bases means.....the proper base was touched.



Not the proper mechanic, but that does not negate the call



No. Why would you think that it does.






It is impossible to have OBS with the fielder in question in possession of the ball

The umpires should leave the field when the game is over. If you wanted to protest (which there was no valid protest available), you should have done it immediately

And thank you for your input.

 

[Lickety Split]

It is not a force

Help me here. I thought the batter forces herself to run by putting the ball in play. I also thought the batter runner cannot run backwards; doesn't that force the batter runner to run forward to 1B?

If you have 2 outs and a runner on 3B, and the batter hits a slow grounder to F6 and the runner on 3 crosses home before the out is made at 1B; the run doesn't count because the 3rd out recorded was a force out.

Isn't it considered a force out anytime an out is recorded by way of the ball reaching the base before the runner?

Please explain why in the rules it is not a force out at 1st base.

 

[Comp]

The out at first is treated the same as a force out, but by strict definition of what a force out is, it does not meet the requirements.

 

[Eric F]

The out at first is treated the same as a force out, but by strict definition of what a force out is, it does not meet the requirements.

Can you clarify that, please? What is the difference?

 

[Comp]

Force out: an out which may made only when a runner loses the right to the base that the runner is occupying because the batter becomes a batter runner, and before the batter runner or a trailing runner has been put out.

By definition the batter is not forced because they are not occupying a base and there is no batter ru ner behind them forcing them to first. For all practical purposes it is treated exactly the same, but by definition it is not a force out.

 

[Eric F]

Force out: an out which may made only when a runner loses the right to the base that the runner is occupying because the batter becomes a batter runner, and before the batter runner or a trailing runner has been put out.

By definition the batter is not forced and where as they are not occupying a base and there is no batter ru ner behind them forcing them to first. For all practical purposes it is treated exactly the same, but by definition it is not a force out.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[BretMan]

It's a difference that from a practical standpoint really makes no difference. In fact, despite the batter-runner making an out at first base technically not being a "force out", by the strictest definitions of the term, you will find it being referred to as a "force out" in several areas of the rule book. But they use the term more or less as just a shorthanded way of referencing this play, instead of having to say "when the batter-runner is put out before safely reaching first base".

So if it's not a force out, how come it still wipes out a run if it's the third out? Because right next to the rule that says "no run can score if the third out is a force out" is another completely separate rule that says "no run scores when the third out is the result of the batter-runner being put out before safely reaching first base". This covers a multitude of ways a batter-runner can be put out, besides having the ball and tagging first base before the batter-runner gets there- fly ball outs, interference with the batted ball, or interference with the fielder being other examples. Those all get lumped into one "catch all" rule about batter-runners not safely reaching first base, and they'll all wipe out a run just the same as a force play.