Im no expert but shes looks pretty good overall. One way to know if she is closing her hips to early is if she misses a lot too the inside to a rh batter. The only thing I see that hasnt been mentioned a lot is her falling off balance to her right side. You HAVE to be balanced to be an effective pitcher.
13 year old pitcher
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halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
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Adman,
I am referring to this post, even though no other mention of movement pitches but my own. There is a reason that proponents of open style pitching will say 'All you need is up, down and a change up'. Think about that. I disagree its all you need, fact is, thats all you can do. You cant cut your hand to the glove side through your own gut, say, for a curveball or down and out. (Speaking RH pitcher and batter here). ALSO no way to cut the hand to the inside for a cutter.
If the release point is at the back hip or back leg, there are also several pitches you cannot throw for that reason. There are some dropballs that are very effective that must be released in front of the hip, peel pull up and palm ball drops as examples.
What this 13 year old is demonstrating is called 'Closed mechanics'. Her hips are at 45 degrees at lft. Suggesting Bill's open mechanics, yeah, that would be a total breaking down of her L and D style.
As far as her body position at LFT and release goes. A leap and drag pitcher's forward momentum and stride length is far more than most step style pitchers. It is faster, stronger and more aggressive than step style. Now, if you are a L and D pitcher that stays 'Standing tall' through the entire pitch or at LFT, the full force of that energy is absorbed by the lower back, the Sacrum spine. Your spine is not designed to absorb shock in that direction. IF the body is on a backwards lean at LFT and release, that energy is absorbed by the ankle, knee for the most part. The rest is absorbed by the entire spine and its alignment, not just the lower spine.
Step style or L and D, the same thing can be said. If they are standing tall at LFT and release, they are putting undue stress on the lower back. There have been a few posters on here talking about that exact same thing happening. This is why I speak out against standing tall.
Now back to our 13yo in question. Does she have a ton of potential as a L and D pitcher? You better believe it! Does she have some issues that need to be fixed? Yup, you better believe that too. Now, you might have noticed in many of my replies on this board that when a pitcher has several issdues that need to be 'Fixed', I normally will point out one or maybe two issues to fix FIRST. Focus everything on that one or two issues. If we consider that one or two the 'Major' fixes, when they are made right, many of the 'Minor' fixes just seem to go away. It has always been that way with a new student I worked with.
Folks will pick a video here to pieces and say "She needs to fix this, this, this, that and the other thing" as advice. Do they need to be fixed? Yup. All at the same time? OMG NO!. Figure out which are the big problems and which are not. Using that thought process, as an instructor, with enough students over time and you will come to realize that fixing the big things will cause some or all of the little things to just go away.
Like this young lady. I suggested the 'Big things' from what I saw. I tried to explain what and why they are happening. As I said, fix those and then hopefully, we can see a new video and some of those 'Little things' have gone away. A re-evaluation.
If your car will not start and you cant explain why, you take a quick look at the rotor and cap, then you pull a plug or two and look at them. (Yeah I'm talking engines from the 70's when I was in a car club) If they all look ok, then you have to check the 'Big' things. If you find the timing chain is stretched way out, you have to fix that first before you can tell if any of the smaller things need to be fixed/ changed.
This is the thinking process I go by when evaluating a pitcher, or a video of a pitcher. Once the big things are fixed, re-evaluate. The small things still needing a fix, again, figure out which of those are now the 'Big' things and fix those next.
Many times I have fixed the original big things and all the little things corrected themselves. Hoping the same thing happens here with this young lady.
I am referring to this post, even though no other mention of movement pitches but my own. There is a reason that proponents of open style pitching will say 'All you need is up, down and a change up'. Think about that. I disagree its all you need, fact is, thats all you can do. You cant cut your hand to the glove side through your own gut, say, for a curveball or down and out. (Speaking RH pitcher and batter here). ALSO no way to cut the hand to the inside for a cutter.
If the release point is at the back hip or back leg, there are also several pitches you cannot throw for that reason. There are some dropballs that are very effective that must be released in front of the hip, peel pull up and palm ball drops as examples.
What this 13 year old is demonstrating is called 'Closed mechanics'. Her hips are at 45 degrees at lft. Suggesting Bill's open mechanics, yeah, that would be a total breaking down of her L and D style.
As far as her body position at LFT and release goes. A leap and drag pitcher's forward momentum and stride length is far more than most step style pitchers. It is faster, stronger and more aggressive than step style. Now, if you are a L and D pitcher that stays 'Standing tall' through the entire pitch or at LFT, the full force of that energy is absorbed by the lower back, the Sacrum spine. Your spine is not designed to absorb shock in that direction. IF the body is on a backwards lean at LFT and release, that energy is absorbed by the ankle, knee for the most part. The rest is absorbed by the entire spine and its alignment, not just the lower spine.
Step style or L and D, the same thing can be said. If they are standing tall at LFT and release, they are putting undue stress on the lower back. There have been a few posters on here talking about that exact same thing happening. This is why I speak out against standing tall.
Now back to our 13yo in question. Does she have a ton of potential as a L and D pitcher? You better believe it! Does she have some issues that need to be fixed? Yup, you better believe that too. Now, you might have noticed in many of my replies on this board that when a pitcher has several issdues that need to be 'Fixed', I normally will point out one or maybe two issues to fix FIRST. Focus everything on that one or two issues. If we consider that one or two the 'Major' fixes, when they are made right, many of the 'Minor' fixes just seem to go away. It has always been that way with a new student I worked with.
Folks will pick a video here to pieces and say "She needs to fix this, this, this, that and the other thing" as advice. Do they need to be fixed? Yup. All at the same time? OMG NO!. Figure out which are the big problems and which are not. Using that thought process, as an instructor, with enough students over time and you will come to realize that fixing the big things will cause some or all of the little things to just go away.
Like this young lady. I suggested the 'Big things' from what I saw. I tried to explain what and why they are happening. As I said, fix those and then hopefully, we can see a new video and some of those 'Little things' have gone away. A re-evaluation.
If your car will not start and you cant explain why, you take a quick look at the rotor and cap, then you pull a plug or two and look at them. (Yeah I'm talking engines from the 70's when I was in a car club) If they all look ok, then you have to check the 'Big' things. If you find the timing chain is stretched way out, you have to fix that first before you can tell if any of the smaller things need to be fixed/ changed.
This is the thinking process I go by when evaluating a pitcher, or a video of a pitcher. Once the big things are fixed, re-evaluate. The small things still needing a fix, again, figure out which of those are now the 'Big' things and fix those next.
Many times I have fixed the original big things and all the little things corrected themselves. Hoping the same thing happens here with this young lady.
Last edited:
- Dec 20, 2012
- 1,084
- 0
Hal, I quit reading your post after the first paragraph because you are absolutely WRONG!!!
Trying to say open mechanics this, closed mechanics that, she's a L and D style pitcher. You try to use this type of lingo to impress people and it does more to confuse them! Hillhouse does not advocate staying adjacent(totally open) to the target, as far as I know he doesn't. Saying someone that throws like Hillhouse can't throw a curve or drop curve is, hang on, hahahaha. Sorry, laughable. Because you don't doesn't mean you can't. If you can't stand open and cut your hand across your gut then that is your gut stopping it. If you are open you can snap behind the hip, in front of the hip, across the gut, ..... any of those locations.
At zero they are totally open, 90 degrees they are totally closed. Anywhere in between is in the perspective of the person talking about it. If someone's hips are at 45 degrees, then they just as much open as they are closed.
Trying to say open mechanics this, closed mechanics that, she's a L and D style pitcher. You try to use this type of lingo to impress people and it does more to confuse them! Hillhouse does not advocate staying adjacent(totally open) to the target, as far as I know he doesn't. Saying someone that throws like Hillhouse can't throw a curve or drop curve is, hang on, hahahaha. Sorry, laughable. Because you don't doesn't mean you can't. If you can't stand open and cut your hand across your gut then that is your gut stopping it. If you are open you can snap behind the hip, in front of the hip, across the gut, ..... any of those locations.
At zero they are totally open, 90 degrees they are totally closed. Anywhere in between is in the perspective of the person talking about it. If someone's hips are at 45 degrees, then they just as much open as they are closed.
- Dec 20, 2012
- 1,084
- 0
I see you are not a mechanic either. If you are missing this one thing all the spark in the world will not make a difference.
sling blade - YouTube
halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
- 2,637
- 0
She is not using open mechanics, like Bill teaches. Pretty sure it was him who said the 'All you need...' quote I used.
By the way, I said cut your hand 'through your own gut', not 'across your own gut'. Sorry you get so easily confused but dont blame me for your problems.
This young pitcher has impressed me alot more with her one video than you have with all the insulting replies you have made on this board.
Do you ever have anything positive to say on here? I dont recall it if you ever did.
You have my sympathy.
By the way, I said cut your hand 'through your own gut', not 'across your own gut'. Sorry you get so easily confused but dont blame me for your problems.
This young pitcher has impressed me alot more with her one video than you have with all the insulting replies you have made on this board.
Do you ever have anything positive to say on here? I dont recall it if you ever did.
You have my sympathy.
Thanks so much for all the replies! I was at a tournament today so I didn't see all the responses. She actually goes to Hillhouse regularly. He has been telling her that she needs to get more sideways and drag the back leg into the front one. I just thought I'd see if anyone had any advice on how to fix it besides throwing into the mirror. It seems like she gets one thing fixed and then another thing pops up. This pitching is hard business!!!
Imagine that!!! Hall isn't a fan of her mechanics. I guess Nano and I are on the same page as Bill, but then again we both see him with our dd's. Lol
halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
- 2,637
- 0
She is throwing more like closed mechanics than open mechanics.
"It seems like she gets one thing fixed and then another thing pops up. " Doesnt he have another DVD that deals with the problems that happen with the open mechanics? Whats it called? The fixes or fixalls or something like that?
Well, with all the big and little things that everyone pointed out needing fixing, that other DVD might be worth it for her.
Is she a product of group lessons, I suspect? Coach James and Nano's kids probably have the same issues?
Hope she does well if he can get her to stay all the way open. Good luck.
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Nope, no group lessons and I don't own the DVDs although maybe I should. She sees him personally. I don't think he wants her completely open he just wants her to let the ball pass through before the back leg moves behind the front one. It could be her swimming is pulling her closed. I'll have to reread all the advice again to see if anything helps her. She's pretty accurate but I know she has a long ways to go and I really want her to get her rise ball going this season but I'd she can't fix her mechanics it's not going to spin correctly.
