10U critique?

[corlay]

Here's my DD in a few vids. Just turned 10 last week.
low-quality 50% slo-mo at "dugout distance", but enough to get the idea, I think?

First is her back in early May.
Still had a tendency to forward lean at delivery at this point. Weak push-off. And illegal pitch motion/wind-up (hands come together at midriff, then apart to start wind-up, then back together again overhead...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WF8O-nVItQ

Next is her last evening. I see some improvement! Glaring issue to me is how her back leg lags behind release? But her push-off looks stronger, better stride, better posture at release, better stride leg resistance at release.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byl23jVSJrk

Your thoughts?

Notes:
1.) I figure I'll get a bunch of comments on that overhead wind-up, yeah that's something I know we probably need to tone-down, now. We incorporated it as a reminder/queue to her to "stay tall", as coming into this season she would be very bent at the waist and weight forward of her stride foot at release...
2.) She's a "leg slapper", before windmill and after. Need to probably ease her out of that, as well.

 

[sluggers]

1) I don't know what you mean by "back leg lags behind release".
2) She is using the "hello elbow". Check the discussions about IR (internal rotation).
3) Her arm is slightly ahead of her body. At 12 (when arm is straight up), the front foot (her left foot) should be off the ground. It looks like she her left foot is landing at 1 or so.
4) Needs to work on pushoff.

 

[corlay]

1) I don't know what you mean by "back leg lags behind release".

At her point of release, her drag foot is a good bit distance behind her stride foot.
Should her drag foot thigh be carrying momentum forward about even with her throwing arm?

2) She is using the "hello elbow". Check the discussions about IR (internal rotation).

yeah, I know.. <sigh>
she's been instructed this way.
This "internal rotation" thing is quite new to me, I'll admit.
heck, we do warm-up drills now that reinforce the *opposite* of internal rotation by a palm down 3:00 position.
No going to address this til late-Summer early-Fall, I think.
I hope that's the right choice...

3) Her arm is slightly ahead of her body. At 12 (when arm is straight up), the front foot (her left foot) should be off the ground. It looks like she her left foot is landing at 1 or so.
4) Needs to work on pushoff.

aren't these two mutually exclusive?
Meaning if she gets a stronger, more aggressive push off, the longer "air time" will allow her arm to catch up to her plant?
That's kindof what I've been thinking...

Thanks for the thoughts!

 

[FrozenRope]

It's hard to see from that distance, but is she crowhopping? If not, I am misunderstanding what a crow hop actually is. I am seeing a lot of similar style pitchers this year. Maybe they have always been around, and I just pay more attention now that my DD pitches.

 

[Ken B]

At her point of release, her drag foot is a good bit distance behind her stride foot.
Should her drag foot thigh be carrying momentum forward about even with her throwing arm?

Watch this video and watch the back thigh:

finch-side.wmv - YouTube

You'll hopefully notice no attempt to impart anything to the pitch from the drag leg, as it's already done it's job.

 

[Ken B]

Since the current palm-forward drills do nothing to prepare her or warm up, just stick with a basic progression of underhand catch:
-9 to 3 o'clock
-full circle walk ups
-full motion

 

[corlay]

It's hard to see from that distance, but is she crowhopping?

In the second, more recent vid, she is - barely.
But her drag toe never actually makes contact with the ground, just hovers barely above it.
I noticed this too, once i slowed the vid down. Looked at it at 25% to be certain.
I know its not every time, though. Theres a well worn spot at our practice mound, and we played again tonight on a dry field and she was visibly turning up dust with that drag foot. A "light touch" with the drag toe is favorable, yes?

 

[corlay]

Watch this video and watch the back thigh:

Ok, yes - i get your point.
Thanks for helping me out.

Like another poster pointed out, she plants to far in advance of release, and thats probably the thing to try an work on right now.

 

[sluggers]

At her point of release, her drag foot is a good bit distance behind her stride foot.
Should her drag foot thigh be carrying momentum forward about even with her throwing arm?

No, no, no. KenB is absolutely correct. Your DD is doing great. Leave her alone. Somehow, she figured it on her own.

As to IR...I was a doubting Thomas on this for a while until I really read what BoardMember was writing and then started investigating pitching motion. All the good pitchers do it.

I know it may be too far in the season to try to change her now. Have her do the drills, but don't push her to do the"hello elbow". Baseball pitchers and golfers (a swing with a nine iron is about identical to a softball pitch) use IR.

I'll be happy to give you the full explanation about it if your PM me. I was a doubting Thomas so I dug into it and found out the "hello elbow" style (what your DD is doing..."showing the elbow to the catcher") is wrong.

Here is a video of Ueno, the best pitcher in the world. It clearly shows her using IR.

[video=youtube_share;5n2hddAXrvY]http://youtu.be/5n2hddAXrvY[/video]

 

[corlay]

No, no, no. KenB is absolutely correct. Your DD is doing great. Leave her alone. Somehow, she figured it on her own.

Yeah, thanks. I get it, now.

As to IR...I was a doubting Thomas on this for a while until I really read what BoardMember was writing and then started investigating pitching motion. All the good pitchers do it.

After rereading the explaination a few times through, the lightbulb finally went off "oh, he means palm facing *up*?!!"
So, i experimented with this throwing some batting practice to the girls before a game tonight.
I stood at about 25' and just threw a static 9-3 delivery using (or attempting to use) IR. the key for me, at least, seemed to be concentrating upon keeping that upper arm close, touching my torso even - without letting the path of my hand flare out from my body more than 6-8". The "turnover" motion feels pretty neat when you get it right. No problem getting proper 12-6 spin at all. And I could tell, with some practice, that the velocity and increased "pop" would be noticable.

Also, had the notion that teaching young girls this philosophy might stave off the tendency to forward lean/bend at waist that so many young girls "naturally" do with the "push from be hind the ball" method, vs the "slinging" style of IR? To pitch with IR correctly, you almost have to have a "stay back" biased posture or it seems like it would be physically difficult or painful to do?

I know it may be too far in the season to try to change her now. Have her do the drills, but don't push her to do the"hello elbow".

Youd think so but... We just concluded our majors regular season, where DD was pitching 12"/40'. We are now entering our all-stars season, and she has decided to play 10u-a vs 12u-b to get the most innings. Shes already going to be adapting to change in 11"/35', so this may actually be the perfect time to at least try a few of these basic drills and see how "natural" she thinks it feels.

What I like about tackling this change is that much of the pre-motion and push off mechanics of a leap/drag style are still completely valid, so its not like starting from scratch, IMO. Everything weve been learning and working on regarding loading the pivot leg, thrusting glove hands forward, striding out powerfully and long, light toe drag, resist with stride leg at delivery, stay (or get) tall, etc. all still very important. Should be interesting...

Worth a shot anyway...

Here is a video of Ueno, the best pitcher in the world

Man, your forum guys sure love this clip, eh?
Ive been a member all of one week, and i think ive already run into it about 50 times...

It is interesting to rewatch it in the context of understanding IR. i now immediately notice how her ball is facing 3b at just below 12:00, and the. She proceeds to "cock it", suponating further to "palm up" at 9:00, and how long she holds that position through the final phase to maximize the torque and potential range of motion applied in the very short and quick movement just prior to release.