many flavors of the look back rule

All,
I am trying to make sure I understand the look back rule. Please correct and errors in my statements, or explain it better please.

Start with a walk. Pitcher has ball in the circle the batter goes to first.
if the batter turns to the right, play over batter has to stay on first.
if the batter rounds and stops, Can they still go to second? If the runner moves towards first play over. If they move towards second and pitcher throws to the second baseman, do they have to continue to second, or since a play has been made can they go back to first?
if the batter rounds and continues and pitcher throws to the second baseman, do they have to continue to second, or since a play has been made can they go back to first?

Ok now with a runner on third, once pitcher has ball back from catcher, runner and third has to go home or stay on third. This should happen prior to batte getting near first base, right? If pitcher makes no play on batter, runner on 3rd cannot advance (assuming they went back to third). Even if batter continues to second. Once pitcher makes a play then runners can go, correct? if pitcher makes a play does pitcher have to leave circle and re-enter to force runners to commit?

For no walk plays once pitcher has control of ball in the circle they must decide what base they ae going to. If they decide for teh advanced base, are they allowed to run back to the obtained base if a paly is made?


Thanks for any help!

You've got a lot going on in your post and I'm sure one of the good umps on this site will give you a better explaination than but but I'll take a stab.

Walk - no one on. P has ball in circle.
1. B stops at 1st then goes to 2nd, out LBR.
2. B does not stop at 1st goes on to 2nd, P make no play, B can immediately turn around and go back to 1st or continue on to 2nd. Can not stop and hesitate at all on either or out via LBR.
3. B does not stop at 1st goes on to 2nd, P makes any play including fake throw and LBR is off.

Same as above excpet with runner on 3rd. B is same as above. LBR for player on 3rd does not go into effect until B reaches 1B.

Lookback rule goes into effect once the batter-runner reaches 1st.
Runner can stop in between 1st n 2nd once, but then must immediately return or advance. Once they stop on a base, they have to stay put.
Turning to the right or over running 1st, they have to return.

Speaking ASA, because there may be variations for other rules:

sportinus said:

Start with a walk. Pitcher has ball in the circle the batter goes to first.
if the batter turns to the right, play over batter has to stay on first.

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Correct. (Well, I wouldn't say "play over," but the batter-runner is committed to first.)

sportinus said:

if the batter rounds and stops, Can they still go to second? If the runner moves towards first play over.

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The runner can stop once, and then must commit to either first or second. Any further stop is an out.

sportinus said:

If they move towards second and pitcher throws to the second baseman, do they have to continue to second, or since a play has been made can they go back to first?

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Once a play is made (and that includes a fake throw), the LBR is off. Runner can go wherever she wants.

sportinus said:

if the batter rounds and continues and pitcher throws to the second baseman, do they have to continue to second, or since a play has been made can they go back to first?

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Same as the last answer.

sportinus said:

Ok now with a runner on third, once pitcher has ball back from catcher, runner and third has to go home or stay on third. This should happen prior to batte getting near first base, right?

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No, as stated above, the LBR isn't on for any runner until the batter-runner gets to first or is put out.

sportinus said:

If pitcher makes no play on batter, runner on 3rd cannot advance (assuming they went back to third). Even if batter continues to second. Once pitcher makes a play then runners can go, correct? if pitcher makes a play does pitcher have to leave circle and re-enter to force runners to commit?

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No, the ball just has to get back into the circle in the pitcher's possession with no play being made. Then we're back to "one stop and commit."

sportinus said:

For no walk plays once pitcher has control of ball in the circle they must decide what base they ae going to. If they decide for teh advanced base, are they allowed to run back to the obtained base if a paly is made?

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Same as before; one stop, then commit, if a play is made the rule is off.

Now, one of the other umps can correct the mistakes I'm sure I made but haven't noticed. . . .

I will post some sections of the look back rule that will help answer your questions. If you have a 2012 ASA rulebook, you need to look on page 95, the LBR is addressed in Rule 8-7(T). It is also addressed in the rules supplement section 34 on pages 127 and 128.

It's too much to type to post it all here and I encourage you to read both sections for a clear understanding. Many people do seem to get confused. When I say many people, I mean all people, coaches, players, fans and umpires.

Here are portions of the rule you should find helpful to answer your questions above.

Rule 8-7(T) - The "Look Back" rule shall be in effect for all runners when the ball is live, the batter-runner has touched first base, or has been declared out, and the pitcher has possession and control of the ball within the pitcher's circle. The pitcher is considered to be in the pitcher's circle when both feet are on or within the lines.

Rule 8-7(T) 3 - Responsibilities of the batter-runner after touching first base, and while the pitcher has control of the ball within the eight foot radius of the pitcher's plate, including a base on balls or a dropped third strike, are as follows:

a. A batter-runner who rounds first base toward second base may stop once, but then must immediately non-stop return to first base or attempt to advance non-stop to second base.

e. - A batter runner who over-runs first base toward right field, and turns right, is committed to first base and must return non-stop to first base.

EXCEPTION: The runner will not be declared out if
1. A play is made on any runner. A fake throw is considered a play.
2. The pitcher no longer has possession of the ball within the eight foot radius, or
3. The pitcher releases the ball on a pitch to the batter.

All of the above is from page 95 of the 2012 rulebook.

Below is a section from Rule Supplement 34 on page 127 of the 2012 rulebook:

34. Look Back Rule
When a runner is legitimately off base after a pitch, or as a result of a batter completing their turn at bat, and is stationary when the pitcher has the ball in the circle, the runner MUST immediately attempt to advance to the next base or immediately return to the base left. The responsibility is entirely on the runner. There is no obligation on the pitcher to look, fake or throw.

A. The Look Back rule does not go into effect for any runner until the batter-runner touches first base or is called out, and the pitcher has control of the ball within the eight foot radius circle.

Hope all of that helps.

There can be variations in the way umpires interpret the rule, so my advice would be to check with the field umpire before the game starts to make sure you understand his/her undertanding of the rule if you are going to 'push' the limits of the 'lookback rule'.

There should be no variations. When you run into that, you probably have a protestable situation.

The umpires, and coaches, that have issues with this rule are those who read words or meanings that are not there, or believe THEY know what the rule REALLY is supposed to do and end up over thinking a situation.

MTR said:

There should be no variations. When you run into that, you probably have a protestable situation.

The umpires, and coaches, that have issues with this rule are those who read words or meanings that are not there, or believe THEY know what the rule REALLY is supposed to do and end up over thinking a situation.

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I agree, but if you think every umpire is going to interpret the rule exactly the same I have some ocean front property in Arizona I would like to sell you....just sayin'

JAD said:

I agree, but if you think every umpire is going to interpret the rule exactly the same I have some ocean front property in Arizona I would like to sell you....just sayin'

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What is there to interpret? Either the runner stopped, reversed or did not proceed when required.

While I believe the rule to be unnecessary, I think the rule is straight forward. The issue is that people try to force the rule as a strategy when it was meant to be nothing more than a game-control tool.

MTR said:

What is there to interpret? Either the runner stopped, reversed or did not proceed when required.

While I believe the rule to be unnecessary, I think the rule is straight forward. The issue is that people try to force the rule as a strategy when it was meant to be nothing more than a game-control tool.

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Playing high level ball you probably get better umpires, but a bunch of umpires I have seen in the past come from a baseball background and you are lucky if they even know what the lookback rule is!