Loading
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: Trick play question

  1. #1
    I can talk softball all day coachdan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    415
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts

    Default Trick play question

    I was watching a travel ball game this past weekend and I seen a play that I had a question about the legality.

    Runner on 1st and is stealing, no outs, catcher catches the ball and holds ball in glove. SS runs toward shallow center field where runner can see her and acts as if there was a flyball hit and she is calling the ball....I got it...I got it. Runner stops thinking there was a fly ball hit and returns to 1st base where catcher then throw the ball to 1st base to record the out.

    Is there any RULE that would prevent a team from doing this?

  2. #2
    I can talk softball all day D.G. OutLaws 16u's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Chicago western burbs
    Posts
    164
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    nope....no 'rule' i've read. Borders unsportsman like IMO
    "trick play'...no, bushleague yes,
    oblivious base coaching yes...along with horrible base running. I've seen/heard a lot but this ones new.

  3. #3
    I can talk softball all day coachdan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    415
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts

    Default

    seen it in 16u game last weekend and it worked like a charm....agree borderline unsportsman like but it was fun to watch.

  4. #4
    MTR
    MTR is offline
    Certified softball maniac MTR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,150
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 243 Times in 189 Posts

    Default

    Nothing wrong with this play. Shame on the runner and her coaches.

    Bush? Maybe in some minds, but it depends. If winning the game is the priority, well, you do what you need to do, within the rules, to do so.

  5. #5
    Softball Junkie FPMark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    662
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts

    Default

    Trick plays like this have been around since the game was invented. Runners don't always have the best view of all the action on the field, so they have to depend on the base coaches to let them know whats going on. When base coaches don't know either, or forget their job and become spectators, things can get ugly.

    This does lead to a question that I've wondered about. If there is nothing illegal with trick plays to decieve the runner, why is it against the rules for a defensive player to 'act like' they are applying a tag to a runner without the ball? ASA Points of Emphasis 20 calls 'fake tags' obstruction, but if the runner slides doesn't that mean they are stopping? With no attempt to continue, I would think it would be more 'deception' than obstruction. If decieving the runner with a fake tag is illegal then trick plays should also be illegal since their only purpose and goal is to deceive the runner. Not sure there's much difference.

  6. #6
    Certified softball maniac chinamigarden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,736
    Thanks
    137
    Thanked 999 Times in 549 Posts

    Default

    I think the fake tag is a safety issue. Typically a fake tag is done to induce a slide and it usually done late which would force a late slide. I think you would end up with some broken ankles if fake tags were allowed.

  7. #7
    Certified softball maniac Lozza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,562
    Thanks
    24
    Thanked 70 Times in 54 Posts

    Default

    Do the bats not make noise? Did the ball going into the glove not make any sound? Are the runners THAT stupid?

    I've seen many type of trick plays, but one where it relies on the player not knowing that a ball has been hit makes me think the players that are falling for it are damn stupid.

    It might be legal, but it reflects very badly on the fielding side. I'm not quite sure why I think this isn't OK but trick plays with fake throws are, but this just feels wrong to me.

  8. #8
    MTR
    MTR is offline
    Certified softball maniac MTR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,150
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 243 Times in 189 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FPMark View Post
    This does lead to a question that I've wondered about. If there is nothing illegal with trick plays to decieve the runner, why is it against the rules for a defensive player to 'act like' they are applying a tag to a runner without the ball? ASA Points of Emphasis 20 calls 'fake tags' obstruction, but if the runner slides doesn't that mean they are stopping? With no attempt to continue, I would think it would be more 'deception' than obstruction. If decieving the runner with a fake tag is illegal then trick plays should also be illegal since their only purpose and goal is to deceive the runner. Not sure there's much difference.
    What are you talking about? What does "no attempt" have to do with OBS?

    A fake tag is only a fake tag if the runner reacts. Unnecessarily sliding is a reaction. I wonder if you understand OBS.

  9. #9
    Softball Junkie FPMark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    662
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts

    Default

    I'm just saying that if the runner is not attempting to advance, then how can you obstruct the runners progress? Yes a fake tag can cause the runner to stop at a base that they otherwise might not have, but trick plays can cause a runner to try to advance when they otherwise would not have.

    If it's up to the runner to know what is happening during a trick play shouldn't they also be aware what is happening during the fake tag? I am just asking whats the difference between deceiving the runner to keep them from taking an extra base, and deceiving the runner to get an out? And just so you know, I am talking about deceiving without touching. I'm questioning the reasoning for deception being legal in one case, but not the other. Both include a defesive player pretending to have the ball when they don't.

  10. #10
    I can talk softball all day druer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    396
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 23 Times in 10 Posts

    Default

    I don't have a problem with plays that take advantage of knowledge you have of other teams, like the fact that they are clueless running bases and their base coaches talk to parents on the sidelines during plays.

    However, in this case I'm wondering why you practice purposely not even trying to just get the out when someone steals. Does the coach really tell the catcher "Sweetie you have no arm. You can't possibly throw any runners out so just hold the ball and we'll just take our chances faking them out." At the point that the "trick play" costs a player the chance to really play the game, and hurts her confidence, I'm not for it.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Segment -- Burn -- Conversion --