New can of Worms

DD has been pitching just over 5 years and has just figured out that by squeezing the ball harder, she is able generate much better spin rates as well as control. I only bring this up because up until now she has thought that she was supposed to just barely hold the ball.
There were times when she could spin the ball pretty well and then the spin rates would drop. I think I remember Rick P. once mentioning the need for strong fingers but never really put 2 and 2 together. The other day while messing around I told her to squeeze the ball harder when she threw it. The spin rate went from 17.5 to 21.8 throwing a peel. The spin was just as tight but much faster. Wanted to share this for others who are searching and feedback from the masters

I'm so confused now! I've also heard that your supposed to have a very loose grip on the ball. Then why the need for strong fingers? And how do you spin the ball hard, with a loose grip? Thanks for your question I'm excited to hear answers!


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I have wondered about this one myself. It seems from past experience that a loose grip affects velocity more than movement. One of my pitchers who is headed off to college this year uses what she says is a death grip. Spins the ball in the mid to high 20's with velocity around 60mph. My DD spins a bit faster and tops out around 70mph while gripping it tight enough where it does not fly out of her hand. That said, I also emphasize keeping the fingers on the ball as long as possible. Would love to hear Rick Pauly or one of the others to weigh in on this.

Grip aside I have found that biggest increase in spin came from a true palm up at 9. If it is not moving the way it should the first thing we check is what is happening at 9.

Varying grip pressure also can be an effective means of changing velocity.

The whole gripping subject is very complex and it is often what separates great from good. There are multiple variables like finger length, grip strength and finger dexterity that play a role in pitching performance. One law of physics I believe is a real advantage, "the law of the lever", is more genetic than trained; aka Cat Osterman long fingers. Here a few of my thoughts about the subject......but don't misconstrue this as some controlled study. I do measure my pitchers grip strength using a dynamometer, measure spin rates using the RevFire, and of course measure speed down to one tenth of a mph using a radar gun......so I have some data and experience to draw from. What I can say is that I've seen what I call trends, but also I see enough anomalies that it is difficult to say there is a sure fire one size fits all approach. I think the variables mentioned above vary depending on the type of pitch being thrown.

IMO there is a real blend of finger dexterity/flexibility and grip strength required for performing all the various movement pitches. As stated early in this thread,I am a proponent of grip strength......when viewing what the fingers need to do on a riseball or curveball to achieve high spin rates with good spin axis it becomes evident to me that grip strength is important. Now out of the other side of my mouth the fingers need to stretch and shorten just like other muscles....so you don't want to sacrifice dexterity for grip strength. So a combination of gripping and stretching exercises seems to produce the best overall results. There are numerous grip strengthening exercises just as there are numerous finger stretching exercises.....do a blend of each.
Relative to how hard to grip the ball, again there is a trade off between a loose grip (reaction/speed) and a strong grip (directing energy into spin which means you may not be directing energy directly into the center mass of the ball). For example a curve or rise may require a stronger grip then a dropball. Sometimes stronger can mean deeper into hand and sometimes it can mean finger pressure.....so it is important to understand both.

The long and short of it is I'd suggest trying different degrees of each variable for each different pitch you are attempting to throw....it may take a while but something will click and now all you have to do is repeat it........there is the challenge.....

Finger dexterity and strength are absolutely necessary. Once you've thrown the ball for a few years, you'll develop strength and be able to use that strength in a way to better manipulate the ball. Starting out is a different monster, IMO. Learn to utilize the end of the whip first... and then learn to manipulate it.

A side note; one of the reasons I put extra emphasis on grip strength for the curveball and riseball has to do with the centrifugal force a ball spinning on the end of a lever (arm) places on the fingers that are trying to stay cupped under the ball. That centrifugal force is trying to straighten out the fingers. Additionally, the fingers are not only trying to maintain the cup, they are also trying to provide some forward/upward force to create the spin and spin axis. This ability to overcome centrifugal force is a primary reason why these two pitches are difficult to master.

Rick, would you describe what you are referring to as 'extra grip strength' to assist with the whip path from 7-O'Clock onwards?

FiveFrameSwing said:

Rick, would you describe what you are referring to as 'extra grip strength' to assist with the whip path from 7-O'Clock onwards?

Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by "assist with the whip path".....not a terminology I remember using. Can you expand on your thoughts relative to this.
But, regardless, see the clip below which depicts the fingers "cupping" under the ball on a riseball. Younger less developed/weaker grip strength pitchers will often not be able to overcome the centrifugal force created by the spinning ball (at the end of the arm circle). Their fingers will tend to straighten out early which often results in a bullet type spin axis and difficulty in achieving the needed release angle.

Thank you Rick.

At one point Gillis was teaching the throwing of a riseball with the wrist of the throwing hand oriented in ‘flexion’.



The added flexion helped guide/promote/dictate the path of the wrist during the whipping action … different than for a dropball/fastball … and coupled with the riseball grip gave a feel of a tighter grip.