- Jul 26, 2010
- 3,554
- 0
I'm not going to derail your thread, Rick, I apologize. I disagree and will leave it at that.
-W
Four Points of Resistance in Pitching
- Thread starter Rick Pauly
- Start date
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I'm not going to derail your thread, Rick, I apologize. I disagree and will leave it at that.
-W
No particular reason for the palm up/wrist cocking......just part of her being relaxed and flowing. Probably the key to note relative to the wrist/palm is that it rotates to face third as it passes 12 o'clock and holds that "slicing" position until just prior to release.
The exaggerated elbow bend is just that...exaggerated 'cause lots of pitchers don't get enough bend/whip...this just encourages whip action.
The bend at 12 o'clock is very predominate in the men's game.
The exaggerated elbow bend is just that...exaggerated 'cause lots of pitchers don't get enough bend/whip...this just encourages whip action.
The bend at 12 o'clock is very predominate in the men's game.
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What is that pitch is that pitcher on the far right throwing? He's got the index finger and middle finger tightly together.
Rick, Go to that clip at point 2:28. What pitch was she throwing? The index and middle finger curled the way they are immediately after release has me wondering. I'm really quite mesmerized by what's going on from 2:24-2:28. Also, the direction that ball is spinning, evidenced by the red tape. Seems to be spinning toward the 3B dugout.
- Jul 31, 2011
- 76
- 8
Rick
I appreciate the identification of the 4 points of resistance. I'd like to submit something to you: as a pitching coach I continue to evolve more and more in the direction of less emphasis on opening and closing of the door as the ball is being delivered to the point now where I now only want the belly button and feet opening 45 degrees as the pitcher explodes off the rubber into a landing toe touch position and then basically staying at that angle thru the release. (I would add that for a split second as the ball is in the 12:00 vicinity that the shoulders do get totally open to facilitate getting the ball properly behind you on the power line. The way we're built it is quite easy for the shoulders to over rotate the hips as happens in the golf swing; but it takes training and when this is done correctly the hip is easily and consistently in position to receive the pitching arm to trigger the snap.) Now as the ball is released the landing leg more easily and quickly stabilizes, the torso more easily and quickly stabilizes,the shoulder more easily and quickly stabilizes, and the hips more easily and quickly stabilize because the belly button and hips are staying open at a 45 degree angle thru the release and follow thru. When I watch your daughter in her delivery there seems to be a very aggressive closing of her hips and shoulders (as most pitchers seem to be taught) as she delivers the ball which in my opinion makes it more difficult to consistently establish those four resistance points; especially her hip(s) and shoulder(s). What do you think?
I appreciate the identification of the 4 points of resistance. I'd like to submit something to you: as a pitching coach I continue to evolve more and more in the direction of less emphasis on opening and closing of the door as the ball is being delivered to the point now where I now only want the belly button and feet opening 45 degrees as the pitcher explodes off the rubber into a landing toe touch position and then basically staying at that angle thru the release. (I would add that for a split second as the ball is in the 12:00 vicinity that the shoulders do get totally open to facilitate getting the ball properly behind you on the power line. The way we're built it is quite easy for the shoulders to over rotate the hips as happens in the golf swing; but it takes training and when this is done correctly the hip is easily and consistently in position to receive the pitching arm to trigger the snap.) Now as the ball is released the landing leg more easily and quickly stabilizes, the torso more easily and quickly stabilizes,the shoulder more easily and quickly stabilizes, and the hips more easily and quickly stabilize because the belly button and hips are staying open at a 45 degree angle thru the release and follow thru. When I watch your daughter in her delivery there seems to be a very aggressive closing of her hips and shoulders (as most pitchers seem to be taught) as she delivers the ball which in my opinion makes it more difficult to consistently establish those four resistance points; especially her hip(s) and shoulder(s). What do you think?
- Jul 31, 2011
- 76
- 8
Rick
I might add that in my experience it seems next to impossible to maintain this posture that I've attempted to describe above here if the ball is being muscled thru the release area instead of being whipped. This is how I spend my day with most students before giving much thought to a particular pitch other than it being very much in the direction of becoming a drop.
Most often it seems that we focus on the power that is created with the resistance your talking about- I'd like to suggest that it also maximizes ball movement,consistency in control, and reducing the risk of injury. Also from my perspective from what I've tried to express above, this technique maximizes being linear in one's mechanics and it would need primarily a leap and drag action.
I might add that in my experience it seems next to impossible to maintain this posture that I've attempted to describe above here if the ball is being muscled thru the release area instead of being whipped. This is how I spend my day with most students before giving much thought to a particular pitch other than it being very much in the direction of becoming a drop.
Most often it seems that we focus on the power that is created with the resistance your talking about- I'd like to suggest that it also maximizes ball movement,consistency in control, and reducing the risk of injury. Also from my perspective from what I've tried to express above, this technique maximizes being linear in one's mechanics and it would need primarily a leap and drag action.
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Doug
I think she was just throwing a plain fastball in this clip. The fingers curling show that the energy was delivered into the ball by the fingers (finger snap). Interesting to think that with all the large muscle groups involved in the total pitching motion....in the end it is the fingers that deliver the energy. Another reason why it would be an advantage to have long-elastic fingers and lots of grip strength.
I think she was just throwing a plain fastball in this clip. The fingers curling show that the energy was delivered into the ball by the fingers (finger snap). Interesting to think that with all the large muscle groups involved in the total pitching motion....in the end it is the fingers that deliver the energy. Another reason why it would be an advantage to have long-elastic fingers and lots of grip strength.
Rich
Your question intrigued me so much I got up and went into the pitching room and tried to replicate what you described and then check it on video. (For prides sake I have to burn the video)
I think there is definitely merit in what you are suggesting. By staying open at 45 degrees it did tend to create more of a muscle stretching up into the shoulder area (or created it earlier) so it did seem to help accelerate the arm whipping action.
Question....do you think there is a possibility of over stressing the shoulder joint because of the added stretch in those muscles or is it just a matter of strengthening those muscles.
To your point, timing of the resistance points is critical. I use a description of "keeping the body quiet" so as to minimize extraneous forced movements. I can see where your suggestion might help the hip resistance timing but not sure there is a difference in shoulder resistance timing since you still do get your shoulders open totally to the PL.
I did feel like I had to really concentrate to get my landing foot to land at a 45 degree angle and with the toe touching the powerline....could be a century of old muscle memory making this feel forced though. Had to fight the feeling of striding to the left of the PL (RHP)
I am going to give this a try with some students that tend to have less than great resistance timing or students that don't seem to be able to get their core to torque the hips.
Hope to post back on this in a week or two.
Your question intrigued me so much I got up and went into the pitching room and tried to replicate what you described and then check it on video. (For prides sake I have to burn the video)
I think there is definitely merit in what you are suggesting. By staying open at 45 degrees it did tend to create more of a muscle stretching up into the shoulder area (or created it earlier) so it did seem to help accelerate the arm whipping action.
Question....do you think there is a possibility of over stressing the shoulder joint because of the added stretch in those muscles or is it just a matter of strengthening those muscles.
To your point, timing of the resistance points is critical. I use a description of "keeping the body quiet" so as to minimize extraneous forced movements. I can see where your suggestion might help the hip resistance timing but not sure there is a difference in shoulder resistance timing since you still do get your shoulders open totally to the PL.
I did feel like I had to really concentrate to get my landing foot to land at a 45 degree angle and with the toe touching the powerline....could be a century of old muscle memory making this feel forced though. Had to fight the feeling of striding to the left of the PL (RHP)
I am going to give this a try with some students that tend to have less than great resistance timing or students that don't seem to be able to get their core to torque the hips.
Hope to post back on this in a week or two.
"The fingers curling show that the energy was delivered into the ball by the fingers (finger snap). Interesting to think that with all the large muscle groups involved in the total pitching motion....in the end it is the fingers that deliver the energy."
In the end it is the fingers that deliver the energy. KABOOM!!! It's interesting how this is also true in an over-hand throw. I have a strong girl on my team who can't throw hard. She gets lots of back-spin but too little velocity. I've told her that she needs to push through with her fingers more. Of course when she works on that, her throws are lower, sometimes in the dirt. I've told her that I would expect to see this at first--it's a sign that she's actually trying to push through with the fingers rather than rolling the ball off of a shot-put type throw.
Back to what you said and it's association with delivering the pitch and the 2:20 to 3:33 segment....
I really like how at 2:25 you see her get her thumb, pinky, and ring finger off of the ball while she's pushing the ball with her index and middle fingers which is an area for me to work on with my pitchers. I think a lot of pitchers fail to get those stabilizing fingers off the ball just prior to the maximum transfer/delivery of built-up energy into the ball, but some of that energy is lost in drag--too much skin on the ball.
As I see it, focusing on a loose whipping of the arm (I/R mindset) is vital, but the benefits of it can be greatly dampened if they aren't getting the fingers to do what's going on with Pauly's fingers in the 2:20 to 3:33 segment. I know I've focused on the grip on the ball and having less skin drag on the ball, but this clip has added some new insight for me.
In the end it is the fingers that deliver the energy. KABOOM!!! It's interesting how this is also true in an over-hand throw. I have a strong girl on my team who can't throw hard. She gets lots of back-spin but too little velocity. I've told her that she needs to push through with her fingers more. Of course when she works on that, her throws are lower, sometimes in the dirt. I've told her that I would expect to see this at first--it's a sign that she's actually trying to push through with the fingers rather than rolling the ball off of a shot-put type throw.
Back to what you said and it's association with delivering the pitch and the 2:20 to 3:33 segment....
I really like how at 2:25 you see her get her thumb, pinky, and ring finger off of the ball while she's pushing the ball with her index and middle fingers which is an area for me to work on with my pitchers. I think a lot of pitchers fail to get those stabilizing fingers off the ball just prior to the maximum transfer/delivery of built-up energy into the ball, but some of that energy is lost in drag--too much skin on the ball.
As I see it, focusing on a loose whipping of the arm (I/R mindset) is vital, but the benefits of it can be greatly dampened if they aren't getting the fingers to do what's going on with Pauly's fingers in the 2:20 to 3:33 segment. I know I've focused on the grip on the ball and having less skin drag on the ball, but this clip has added some new insight for me.
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