The Flap - Markwort Perfect Circle Pitcher's Training Aid - Any use for this?

Rich Balswick said:

I personally find the "flap" to be irrelevant because of a different orientation of how to trigger the release of the ball- meaning that the upper inside of the forearm brushes the hip as the reference for when, where, and how the ball is released. There is no question in my mind that most of the elite pitchers use this very tried and true technique. If one studies the side view, short 4 second slow motion video clip of Jennie Finch on U tube, it shows very clearly the upper inside of her forearm catching her hip as she releases the ball and the primary swing point of her pitching arm at release is her elbow. ( This may be unfair to say this because it comes from second and third hand information; but Jennie's father, Doug, disapproves IMO of brushing the hip which could indicate how controversial and misunderstood this brushing action is. ) The video I see of Angela Tincher demonstrates this brushing technique also. And possibly the highest positioned pitching coach in the Nation today believes in a brushing style. So IMO the flap is unnecessary because of this hip referencing.

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Ummmmm, ok. I still think this is a great tool for helping a pitcher get away from the 2 major mechanical flaws that occur the most: hip/hand coming through together (hello elbow) and a gap between arm and body at release. If used in front of a mirror she can work on brushing her arm past her body and use the flag as a target to hit as she does this.

Doug Finch seems like a nice guy to me, from what little I know of him and about him. I'll leave it at that.

Bill

My oldest DDs first PC used folded duct tape (leaving tabs on each side) in group sessions. She placed it on the corner of the hip.

Hillhouse said:

Ummmmm, ok. I still think this is a great tool for helping a pitcher get away from the 2 major mechanical flaws that occur the most: hip/hand coming through together (hello elbow) and a gap between arm and body at release. If used in front of a mirror she can work on brushing her arm past her body and use the flag as a target to hit as she does this.

Doug Finch seems like a nice guy to me, from what little I know of him and about him. I'll leave it at that.

Bill

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I respect your input highly, to say the least, and Perfect Circle's as well. I think I now know what hello elbow means. Family is calling for Christmas Eve dinner. I'm looking forward to continuing this soon. Merry Christmas!

Rich Balswick said:

I respect your input highly, to say the least, and Perfect Circle's as well. I think I now know what hello elbow means. Family is calling for Christmas Eve dinner. I'm looking forward to continuing this soon. Merry Christmas!

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And All due respect to You as well. I'm in no ways near the same league as Mister Hillhouse. I played 2nd base on our Slow Pitch Church league. Although I was 12 when I made the mens team, like him... but I didn't turn out...to win any National Championships in 1968 - 2012 either. It was all I could do to even be able to watch him do it via stream this year...

I am a older Father of 10U DD. I got to find the right way or don't do nothing. You got to have the ultimate method, and hit the ground running to get the 10,000 reps in.(Talent Code) Every time you talk (good or bad), your wasting time.

Same with the Girls who have hung in and proved to have the best arms, but never got to pitch when they were little. They hung in and love the game. They can make up for the lost time if they get the ultimate method down from the very beginning, and get there 10,000 reps in the correct way from day one.

You need the few aids available that He recommends (for sure) to be able to count your reps at start up. That foot has to stay straight from the first try, ect... another thing that you'll never know unless you been there is... He knows how to say the things that engage the whole process, in You and your DD. Once you have seen it first hand, you don't want to tell everyone, because you know in your heart that you'll never be worthy, to tell some little girl if she is doing good or bad...It is all in what brings her satisfaction, as she knows by self correction to the progress prescribed. Plus you feel that you are really a big part of something big time, and you know that for it to ever help anyone else, they have to hear it firsthand themselves. There are many things that are simply spoken into existence...its has a mystical element...like being baptized, or better yet, being Knighted...IMHO

Even tho' your avatar drives me nuts due to the flashing, I'm glad I made it thru your post to get to this nugget. Well said.

Perfect Circle said:

There are many things that are simply spoken into existence...its has a mystical element...like being baptized, or better yet, being Knighted...IMHO

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abbygale said:

Even tho' your avatar drives me nuts due to the flashing, I'm glad I made it thru your post to get to this nugget. Well said.

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Sorry that avatar got away from me... I can slowly edit it frame by frame perfect, but couldn't control the speed of display...

Perfect Circle

Bill Hillhouse baptizes with water- I will baptize you with spirit by the time I'm done with this subject. ( Guys, PLEASE forgive my attempt at humor here.)

I teach absolute beginners from the get go to use the hip, as described above, as the reference for triggering whip and snap for the release of the ball; so whenBl says that the flap is needed to help your arm to be in contact with yourself as the ball is released, I continue to fail to see the reason because the hip itself is the reference and not a flap. As for his description of hello elbow being the simultaneous action of the hip and pitching arm coming forward thru the release and somehow being effectively hindered by a flap being installed somewhere, I am totally blind. Bill, I reverently ask for help.

Rich

I don't know about pitchers in your area but, in the places I travel and do regular lessons, I routinely get A LOT of pitchers who have a significant gap between their arm and body as the arm comes through. They either do this because they have never been taught differently or because she WHACKED herself on her side sometime ago and is now gun-shy about her arm coming anywhere near her body. No matter how many times or how many ways they are told to touch their arm to their hip (or brush past their stomach) they still leave a 6" gap. So, practicing in a mirror with the "flap" helps them to get their arm much closer to the body.

I would love to know your secret if you've never encountered a kid with this problem of the arm being away from the body.

As for the HE problem, when people put the flap on the side of their body, they are teaching the pitcher to go around the body not through the body with the arm. Bringing the hip and hand through together is sometimes called "slam the door". This is usually in direct relation with Hello Elbow.

Rich, maybe you are lucky. Maybe you get to start kids from day 1. I don't have that luxury, I usually see pitchers who've been to many coaches or see another coach who teaches "HE" or something else. I'm baffled at how you don't seem the advantages of this tool to FIX problems.

Bill

Hillhouse said:

Rich

I don't know about pitchers in your area but, in the places I travel and do regular lessons, I routinely get A LOT of pitchers who have a significant gap between their arm and body as the arm comes through. They either do this because they have never been taught differently or because she WHACKED herself on her side sometime ago and is now gun-shy about her arm coming anywhere near her body. No matter how many times or how many ways they are told to touch their arm to their hip (or brush past their stomach) they still leave a 6" gap. So, practicing in a mirror with the "flap" helps them to get their arm much closer to the body.

I would love to know your secret if you've never encountered a kid with this problem of the arm being away from the body.

As for the HE problem, when people put the flap on the side of their body, they are teaching the pitcher to go around the body not through the body with the arm. Bringing the hip and hand through together is sometimes called "slam the door". This is usually in direct relation with Hello Elbow.

Rich, maybe you are lucky. Maybe you get to start kids from day 1. I don't have that luxury, I usually see pitchers who've been to many coaches or see another coach who teaches "HE" or something else. I'm baffled at how you don't seem the advantages of this tool to FIX problems.

Bill

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Bill
The kids I get in my area, believe me, are just as messed up as the ones you work with, so often because of previous coaching, and I fully relate to the challenge of dealing with that big gap between the arm and body at release and the timidness of getting near the hip. I just had a very talented young high school pitcher start coming to me a couple of months ago who had broken her elbow bone twice from improperly hitting her hip; ( I was shown the gruesome pictures of bruises that only you could believe.) so you can imagine the look on her face, and her mother's, when I addressed the idea of brushing her hip; (I hadn't seen the pictures yet or been told of the twice broken bone.) so you can imagine my quick retreat! The most amazing part of the story was her incredible courage to continue pitching and even get near the hip which she still did do to some degree. UNBELIEVABLE !! So, anyhow I began addressing the issue with my eyes wide open, to say the least, and showed her where, how and why the contact "could" be made. I showed her how the forced and blind action she had been taught "could" be corrected and changed. I felt like I showed her the root of the problem which was basically how she was taught to force her pitching hand forward with a locked arm to release the ball rather than a very relaxed swinging action of the arm eventually being catapulted thru the release area. ( I spend untold hours helping kids get rid of potential harmful habits and most of it is right in this area. ( I don't have time to do it justice here. ) Getting the pitching arm to have some relaxed flex in it etc., etc.
I'm out of time to continue; so I will attempt more late tonight. Where I'm eventually trying to go with all this is that I believe that using the flap tends to treat a symptom rather than a cause. Love ya all!

So what am I trying to say? It boils down to this- when I am teaching a student to release the ball efficiently, one thing I'm showing them is how to CREATE SPACE with their lower arm and hand rather than trying to contact a flap. SO HOW IS THIS DONE AND WHY IS THE QUESTION in my eyes. If anyone is interested, I will answer that question.