What is the official strike zone for a pitched ball?

[bucket pinata]

comment one. umpires don't watch the catchers glove to tell us if its a strike.
comment two. when a catcher frames a pitch with the glove it tell umpires it was a ball.

I must be missing something.

 

[Phathead]

comment one. umpires don't watch the catchers glove to tell us if its a strike.
comment two. when a catcher frames a pitch with the glove it tell umpires it was a ball.

I must be missing something.

^^^^^I belive you are correct at least with a good ump. He knows where it came across and his mind is already processing the call he is going to make according to his "zone". I doubt he takes the time to notice or care about the catchers glove tilt,turn or position.

 

[cuzmail]

comment one. umpires don't watch the catchers glove to tell us if its a strike.
comment two. when a catcher frames a pitch with the glove it tell umpires it was a ball.

I must be missing something.

I see what you did there !

 

[GOINGDEEP]

A pretty good read on framing in MLB, and the extra strikes/outs values for their team. ( and I don't even like catchers )

Baseball Prospectus | Framing and Blocking Pitches: A Regressed, Probabilistic Model

We will freely admit: If you haven't seen the results of previous framing studies, it can be tough to wrap your mind around the size of the impact of a good or bad framing catcher. These effect sizes are not out of line with what has been reported in the past, but they’re still obscenely large. Everyone agrees that Mike Trout was either a deserving MVP or a deserving runner-up in each of the past two seasons, which the stats say were worth close to 10 wins apiece. Our data suggest that over the past five years, the teams that have employed good framers like Jonathan Lucroy, Brian McCann, and Jose Molina have received essentially “free” MVP-caliber seasons from framing alone. (Each of those catchers has been worth about two extra wins per season over that span). This is a staggering amount of value. Add in the fact that these wins are almost assuredly not properly priced into the free agent market, and the difference between having a good framing catcher or a bad framing catcher can make or break a cost-conscious team.

 

[riseball]

I find it interesting that the argument against framing usually starts with the reference to "a good umpire" as if that was somehow the norm behind the plate. Forget this framing nonsense. I am sure this weekend there will be nothing but good umpires behind the plate with the Easter Bunny working the bases.

 

[MTR]

I have been told pregame what the zone would be and really appreciated the effort by the umpire. Seems so simple to me, but I guess I am a simple person. Tell me up front and do a good job adhering to what you say. The old say what you are going to do and do what you say works here. Will it be perfect? Of course not, but you shouldn't see a sternum area a strike for one batter and not for the next on a regular basis.

Still, I ask that the zone be consistent between batters and teams. I don't really care where the zone is just that it remains the same. That is all I ask and I really don't think it's too much to ask. I also can't see any argument where amything else would be accpetable and could be explained away as lil Suzie's parents being extreme.

What did the umpire tell you? What if I told you nothing above the waste was going to be call a strike, especially if your DD throws a great rise ball? What if I tell you something ridiculous, you still going to be good with that? What if a teams changes the line-up because of it? Does that mean the umpire just aided a team? How's the other team going to feel about that?

Yes, I see your point about some people thinking the zone is anything that hits the glove. At 0-2 and usually at 1-2 you won't see the pitch in the zone with us or at least it isn't called in the zone but sometime it misses there . Anyway, there are extremes on both sides of the game like parents, umps, coaches, ..etc but that doesn't or shouldn't preclude explanation and calling a good game.

I don't understand how you made it around to calling or not calling a good game. I agree the umpire should remain consistent, but see below for my semi-annual explanation that no one ever wants to hear.

Whether you want to believe it or not, there are plenty of umpires out there who don't come close to calling the official strike zone...
They don't call the full width of it...
They don't call the full height of it.. Yes, I know the height of it varies according to batter height..

Whether it's the pitcher from the other team or my/our pitcher pitching, I've always wanted the full strike zone called. That might be because I like aggressive batters. It's also because I like fewer walks.
I LIKE THE STRIKE ZONE CALLED AS IT IS OFFICIALLY DESCRIBED, NOT HOW AN UMPIRE FEELS IT SHOULD BE.

Let me say again, as is the case in anything out there, just because an umpire has gone through all the training available doesn't mean he/she will necessarily have the proper ability to call a consistent official strike zone.

Actually, umpires are trained to not call the "official" strike zone and with a reason that was actually brought about to aid the batters and pitcher's equally.

The "official" zone is base on focal points, something the umpire can actually see to aid in judgment. The move to the sternum by the NCAA was, IMO, just a move to placate the coaches to eliminate that fact that none of them want the high strike called. As previously noted, there is no way for any umpire to know where a player's sternum is, let alone if the top of the ball was under it completely or not. However, by doing so, it basically brought the NCAA strike zone to the same thing ASA has been training their umpires to do for a while.

We are trained to bring it up, pull it down, but widen it. The high and low corners are the harder pitches to hit so umpires have been instructed for years to make such an adjustments. About 25 years ago, it was referred to as a "chevron" zone, but later adjusted to be more like a balloon, push the top and bottom and the sides expand. This is why you will see umpires give the pitcher about a ball's width on the outside corner which in spite of being out of the "official" strike zone is a very hitable pitch.

And before you say it, I'm not talking about umpires calling strikes in the other BB or getting crazy with it. I'm talking about an umpire with a consistent zone for each batter.

 

[cuzmail]

You mixed quotes here. I'll respond to my quotes only.

What did the umpire tell you?

He told the coaches that his zone was knees to waist and black to black.

What if I told you nothing above the waste was going to be call a strike, especially if your DD throws a great rise ball? What if I tell you something ridiculous, you still going to be good with that? What if a teams changes the line-up because of it? Does that mean the umpire just aided a team? How's the other team going to feel about that?

I answered this earlier in this thread. Kinda like your semi annual post reference. I might not like it but I will respect it as long as it is the same for all batters on both teams. Again, I didn't say where the zone had to be. I said it needed to be the same during the game for everyone.

I don't understand how you made it around to calling or not calling a good game. I agree the umpire should remain consistent, but see below for my semi-annual explanation that no one ever wants to hear.

I don't call the game anymore. In fact I am just a parent now. However, I don't see how that would be a hardship on calling the game. Information is a good thing and can only serve to aid you. Would you need to adapt? Sure, but you have to adapt in some form every game anyway so what's the difference? These days I record pitches, keep score, and work with my DD. I help her practice the organization philosophy in situations. This is where the 0-2 or 1-2 pitch off the plate comes from.

 

[cuzmail]

Framing Sounds allot like the rise ball argument

Uh oh...

Agreed. For a pitch that textbook physics won't allow to work for various reasons, it sure does produce results in the real world!

 

[sluggers]

As previously noted, there is no way for any umpire to know where a player's sternum is,

For some reason, I think it is pretty easy to determine the location of the top of the sternum for most women.

Maybe it is just me.

 

[chinamigarden]

This question reminds me of the great theological debate of "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"