The backswing; Does it add speed?

[halskinner]

This question was brought up in a different thread. Tha kind of brought it 'off-topic' from the original post, so I thought I would bring it out for comment.

One of the comments made was that ball speed was developed from 12:00 to release. From my own experience working with students under radar, I agree with that statement. I believe that at least 95% to 97%% of full speed can be developed in the downswing.

I will do my best to try and explain why I believe that.

It's no secret that I taught students at all ages to use more than one wind up as a tactic to disrupt the batter's timing of the pitcher's motions. Once a month, or thereabouts, I would break out the gun and clock them on both or all three wind ups, however many they used in a game.

In almost every case, whatever the backswing speed was, the straight out of the glove into the forward wind up wopuld be within 2 or 3 mph. With some pitchers the backswing was faster, with some, just the opposite was the case.

Here is the big kick finish to this unofficial study I did. One of the wind ups I taught to every pitcher was the 'Softball Submarine' wind up. This wind up is done as a step style pitch and does not utilize the front half of the wind up at all and one would think, with that description it would produce a noticeably slower ball speed. IT DOES NOT. The speed clocked was in that same area, within 22 or 3 mph of their fastest speed with the other wind up/s.

In a few cases, the student would actually throw the submarine wind up with a ball speed faster than the others. This was also one way I judged if they were at 100% on the other wind ups.

Again, I believe 95% of ball speed IS developed in the downswing.

I will also add that for a very small new pitcher, that backswing is simply a comfidence builder and makes them believe they are throwing harder and is necessary, at least until they have more experience and confidence.

 

[X pitcher]

The back arm swing does not add speed and more can go wrong with consistent control using all that motion. The first thing Hillhouse does with a new student is get rid of the back arm swings and roll over drops. He keeps it so simple but he likes the long powerful stride...I bought his 1st 2 videos for my Daughter, but she wouldn't watch them. Her passion was basket ball, and she was happy with the peel drop and her bird dogged change up.

Good post Hal

 

[Ken B]

Great post!

 

[coach james]

bird dogged change up.

We'll add this one to the list...
1. Circle cu
2. Flip cu
3. Palm cu
4. Punch cu
5. Cats claw cu
6. Knuckleball cu
7. Pop cu
8. Roll over cu
That's all I can think of right now! Lol

 

[halskinner]

The back arm swing does not add speed and more can go wrong with consistent control using all that motion. The first thing Hillhouse does with a new student is get rid of the back arm swings and roll over drops. He keeps it so simple but he likes the long powerful stride...I bought his 1st 2 videos for my Daughter, but she wouldn't watch them. Her passion was basket ball, and she was happy with the peel drop and her bird dogged change up.

Good post Hal

Thank you Doug.

I will have to add that probably 75% of the young ladies pitching in the US DO pitch with the backswing (Double pump wind up).

Almost every student I ever worked with came to me with the DP wind up.

Other instructors might not like it or teach it, I could care less what they do. I would add the straight out of the glove wind up and the submarine wind up to what they ALREADY HAD. I would never tear apart whatever confidence they had built up by saying they could not use their wind up they have used for however long. Let them keep that confidence and add even more.

All it took was for them to step into the batters box against me. I would throw a double pump pitch and then a sub wind up to show them how it looks just like a double pump but without the rest of the wind up. The batters will just stand there and wait for the rest of the wind up as the strike flies by.

I would NEVER limit a pitcher to one wind up, or any other limitations at all.

I gave them the keys to the kingdom.


DP and Sub

 

[X pitcher]

I guess Hillhouse and Gillis don't teach or allow their students to use the back arm swing, because they don't understand it and can't improve it or they know it isn't the best way to get to the k position for the release of the ball. First thing Bill does with a new student is get rid of this, and he explains why.

 

[BoardMember]

Ah but remember..........Mr. "X" said men are "triple jumpers" and women are "broad jumpers".......(no pun intended)........

The mechanics of the broad jump, and how the most explosive leg drive is achieved ties directly into having to keep BOTH FEET on the rubber..........So who's missing the boat here?.........



Don't let science and bio-mechanics get in the way of a good ol' boy who was pitching when Rotary Dial "Princess Phones" were the "in thing".........

 

[X pitcher]

I was saying you can't compare men that had to pitch with 2 feet on and no hop, to the men that are allowed to pitch with foot, 2feet behind the rubber and hop and replant. Different games. But you can compare the two feet on men to the two feet on women without hops, and women should be taught to throw like the elite men from then, and not like the monkey see girls of the last 40 plus years.

 

[halskinner]

When you say 'Cant compare' are you talking about ball speed?

You say the men that are allowed to do all those things when they pitched. But ya know what, I never see ANYBODY else in the circle twisting thier arm and MAKING them cheat.

The point you are resting on is simple, pitching by the rulebook or pitching ilegally.

I DONT TEACH THEM TO PITCH ILEGALLY, However, there are some instructors that do. Every one of them should be tarred and feathered.

 

[NewBucketDad]

I would like to know why you pitching experts think that the back arm swing doesn't add to more explosiveness. I know broad jump is not pitching but it is the closest physical action i can find to compare to leap and drag. If back arm swing doesn't add power[explosiveness] why do broad jumpers do it?
Here is a study of the arms role in the Broad jump

When I do my best impersonation of the leap and drag I definitely have a more powerful and longer stride. Im not trying to start an argument I try to keep an open mind and do whats best for my DD. I dont follow every thing I hear Just because so and so said so. I need reasons.