Zombie Drill Tips

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Aug 21, 2008
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No worries Bill! My assumption was that many others on here have done this drill with their DD. I thought this drill was a commonly used drill to address timing issues. I’ve always used Java’s stuff as my go to for drive stuff. Her ball passes her hip before the stride knee (bad timing imo). In watching other high level pitchers the stride knee gets out ahead of the ball, which I creates more whip. I understand that drills can be over emphasized or used to correct issues that don’t exist.

I know and respect Java a lot, he's a great guy. And I know Mike (Java) has his own way of doing things and reasons for them, but I just don't understand how this "drill" helps with the drive forward. I truly don't get it. Two critical things are missing for a maximum drive from the rubber: 1. arms leading the way. 2. there's no load of the legs.

1. Arms need to lead the way when we do things. When you jump in the air, or broad jump, people use their arms (plural, not ARM) for momentum. When we run we use our arms (plural, not ARM) for momentum. This drill doesn't demonstrate any of that.

2. There is no load of the legs, no bend of the waist and flex of the front knee like a sprinter for the push off the rubber. She's striding from a completely erect position. How does that help someone with their stride? I'm not so sure it does.

I'm not trying to lump you or your DD into this statement but, this happens all the time. Pitchers doing drills that don't encompass the other moving parts of the pitching motion, in many cases CRITICALLY necessary moving parts (arms leading the way and loading the leg for push off for example). Then when she goes to pitch, the timing is thrown off because she's trying to put those pieces in somewhere while using the mechanics worked on in the "drill".

There is a pitching coach in my area whom I played with and against for many years during the '90s-2000's. He was a good pitcher, and seems to be pretty good at teaching pitching. However, I have noticed when we do lessons side by side that many of his students come in to the facility and warm up 2 or 3 lanes down where he doesn't see them. Many of these girls warm up doing wrist flips, ridiculous knee drills, etc. etc. Then, in their lesson, this coach is trying to get them to whip the ball and do all the things a pitcher is supposed to do. But, her warm ups are contradicting her lesson. So their bodies train themselves one way with these warm up routines then try to work in contrast to that in the lesson. I don't think this pitching coach realizes this, I KNOW he wouldn't sign off on doing wrist flicks and other things because they'd refute what he wants them to do when pitching. Do you see what I'm getting at here? The timing issue might be a problem because you're not working on all the factors needed for the timing problem. It's just a theory.

It's entirely possible that I'm missing something here and this is the greatest "drill" in the world. I certainly acknowledge that I don't know everything.

Bill
 
Mar 28, 2014
1,081
113
Cornbread your DD is late with her push. Slow it down and look at when she actually pushes with her drive foot. Way late. That is causing her timing issues. Even after your zombie drills she is still detaching after 10 o'clock. Start having her push sooner and she will detach at 9. Then you can both celebrate her timing issues being fixed and send me a check for the consult. :)
 
Aug 20, 2017
1,474
113
Cornbread your DD is late with her push. Slow it down and look at when she actually pushes with her drive foot. Way late. That is causing her timing issues. Even after your zombie drills she is still detaching after 10 o'clock. Start having her push sooner and she will detach at 9. Then you can both celebrate her timing issues being fixed and send me a check for the consult. :)
You are correct Texas! My hope is the zombie drill will teach her to push sooner. IMO it forces the pitcher to push sooner and get the stride leg ahead of the ball.
I tried just telling her to push sooner but that wasn’t working lol. When doing this drill she can feel it. We have only worked it a couple days. Can I pay you on the 32nd of this month?
 
Mar 28, 2014
1,081
113
You are correct Texas! My hope is the zombie drill will teach her to push sooner. IMO it forces the pitcher to push sooner and get the stride leg ahead of the ball.
I tried just telling her to push sooner but that wasn’t working lol. When doing this drill she can feel it. We have only worked it a couple days. Can I pay you on the 32nd of this month?
Since it's a leap year that will be fine.
 
Mar 28, 2014
1,081
113
View attachment 16909
Stride knee gets out before ball passes hip
IMO you are focusing on the wrong leg. Careful worrying too much about the stride leg because you will create a pitcher that uses the extension of her stride leg to generate drive instead of using her drive leg to push her off the plate. Well she already is really. If you focus on the drive leg and have her drive off sooner, the stride leg will be in the proper position as a function of pushing off sooner.
 

fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
1,138
83
SE Wisconsin
I know and respect Java a lot, he's a great guy. And I know Mike (Java) has his own way of doing things and reasons for them, but I just don't understand how this "drill" helps with the drive forward. I truly don't get it. Two critical things are missing for a maximum drive from the rubber: 1. arms leading the way. 2. there's no load of the legs.

1. Arms need to lead the way when we do things. When you jump in the air, or broad jump, people use their arms (plural, not ARM) for momentum. When we run we use our arms (plural, not ARM) for momentum. This drill doesn't demonstrate any of that.

2. There is no load of the legs, no bend of the waist and flex of the front knee like a sprinter for the push off the rubber. She's striding from a completely erect position. How does that help someone with their stride? I'm not so sure it does.

I'm not trying to lump you or your DD into this statement but, this happens all the time. Pitchers doing drills that don't encompass the other moving parts of the pitching motion, in many cases CRITICALLY necessary moving parts (arms leading the way and loading the leg for push off for example). Then when she goes to pitch, the timing is thrown off because she's trying to put those pieces in somewhere while using the mechanics worked on in the "drill".

There is a pitching coach in my area whom I played with and against for many years during the '90s-2000's. He was a good pitcher, and seems to be pretty good at teaching pitching. However, I have noticed when we do lessons side by side that many of his students come in to the facility and warm up 2 or 3 lanes down where he doesn't see them. Many of these girls warm up doing wrist flips, ridiculous knee drills, etc. etc. Then, in their lesson, this coach is trying to get them to whip the ball and do all the things a pitcher is supposed to do. But, her warm ups are contradicting her lesson. So their bodies train themselves one way with these warm up routines then try to work in contrast to that in the lesson. I don't think this pitching coach realizes this, I KNOW he wouldn't sign off on doing wrist flicks and other things because they'd refute what he wants them to do when pitching. Do you see what I'm getting at here? The timing issue might be a problem because you're not working on all the factors needed for the timing problem. It's just a theory.

It's entirely possible that I'm missing something here and this is the greatest "drill" in the world. I certainly acknowledge that I don't know everything.

Bill
Someone posted the meaning of the drill earlier in this thread you may not have seen it. i have reattached below. I don't think it is specifically for drive.

https://www.discussfastpitch.com/threads/drive-mechanics.18135/page-33#post-499475
 
May 15, 2008
1,913
113
Cape Cod Mass.
I believe that trying to time basic body positions to where the ball is in the circle is misunderstood. Where the ball is in the circle in comparison to launch, foot plant, etc is an effect not a cause. If your daughter (a lefty) is at 3 o'clock at touchdown this doesn't mean that her timing is off and she's going to gain velocity by being at 1 o'clock instead. And you can backchain this to earlier positions also. I believe that the time between foot plant and release is an absolute and varies little from pitcher to pitcher. If so then where the ball is at foot plant is related to how fast a pitcher is moving the ball through the circle. or her pitch velocity. A pitcher like Amanda S., who can throw 70mph will have the ball further back in the circle at foot plant than a girl who throws 50mph because it will take her less time to get to release. And you can take that same reasoning back to launch. The faster a pitcher is the earlier in her circle she can be or vice versa, the slower a pitcher is the further into her circle she will be.
So what I'm saying is that if your daughter was faster (which would mean her arm circle was faster) she could be at 9 o'clock (vs 10) at detach because the ball would get to foot plant/release sooner. I also think that one of the main benefits of the zombie drill is that it forces pitchers to accelerate their arm circle sooner than what they are accustomed to. Have your daughter focus on moving the ball through the circle faster, especially at the start.
 

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