Your opinion wanted: Sample Chapter -- Courtesy Runners

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May 29, 2015
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Correct ruling, the PH was NOT the pitcher of record. Also why, as an umpire you ALWAYS double check the starting pitcher listed on the line-up card for the visiting team, since that pitcher may come up to bat before she has thrown a pitch.

((TMIB, not sure if the book is intended to be how to avoid issues like this so I apologize if this takes the thread on a tangent))

No apologies needed! That ties right into the question I just asked ... how do you feel about the inclusion of circumstantial stories in the book? I tend to be a story-teller (in case you hadn't noticed) and I don't want that to get in the way of the material. I feel like it could be beneficial though.

I also hope that you guys vet the material through your stories -- you might find something weird I may want to include!
 
Jun 6, 2016
2,714
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Chicago
No apologies needed! That ties right into the question I just asked ... how do you feel about the inclusion of circumstantial stories in the book? I tend to be a story-teller (in case you hadn't noticed) and I don't want that to get in the way of the material. I feel like it could be beneficial though.

Don't think of them as stories but examples. Examples could be helpful with some confusing rules.

A couple things (in descending order of importance)...

1) In the large "In all codes" paragraph on page 1, you say this: "Once a player enters as a courtesy runner in an inning, they cannot be used as a legal substitute in that half-inning."

The implication there is that a courtesy runner could courtesy run and then, later, enter as a substitute, but this is not said explicitly anywhere. I think this would be a useful statement (this question has come up in games for us; I'm glad I knew it was legal for the CR to later enter as a sub).

Putting on my past-life copyeditor hat for the next two:

2) In that same paragraph you mention how a pitcher/catcher cannot return to run for that trip around the bases. You also mention it in the bullet points immediately below. It's redundant to include it twice. I can't decide where it fits better though.

3) "(note: there is an injury exception to this in all codes who use courtesy runners)"

"Who" should be "that." The codes are not a person. :)
 
May 29, 2015
3,731
113
@CoachJD ... I may be misreading your #1 ... every code that uses a courtesy runner (great catch!) explicitly states a player CANNOT be a courtesy runner and then entered as substitute (i.e., into the batting lineup) in the same half-inning.

Or are you saying I should specifically state that they CAN be used as a substitute after the half-inning? USA Softball has a case play involving the courtesy runner going out on defense (the umpire improperly denies the substitution because he/she misapplies when a half-inning ends and starts).

That also leads to a question for you gals and guys ... should I include specific citations (e.g., USA 1.2.C; NFHS 4.5.6; USSSA 7.8.i-k) in the places a rule is applicable? It may take up considerable real estate.

Hit me with anything guys! I am just starting on this journey. While I know what I want to accomplish, it is critical that it connects with the reader. I want to know what you like/don't like, especially when it comes to things like style, depth of detail, etc. I believe the written word also has a "user interface" (like a computer program) and it drives me nuts to read (and create) things that seem to be a jumble.
 
Jun 6, 2016
2,714
113
Chicago
@CoachJD ... I may be misreading your #1 ... every code that uses a courtesy runner (great catch!) explicitly states a player CANNOT be a courtesy runner and then entered as substitute (i.e., into the batting lineup) in the same half-inning.

Or are you saying I should specifically state that they CAN be used as a substitute after the half-inning? USA Softball has a case play involving the courtesy runner going out on defense (the umpire improperly denies the substitution because he/she misapplies when a half-inning ends and starts).

Yes, I mean after that half-inning. I didn't know about the USA case play, but it's something that has come up as a question before so thought it would be worth stating explicitly.

That also leads to a question for you gals and guys ... should I include specific citations (e.g., USA 1.2.C; NFHS 4.5.6; USSSA 7.8.i-k) in the places a rule is applicable? It may take up considerable real estate.

Maybe do this as a footnote or something where the information is there, but it's not obtrusive. I think it's important to include because you will have many people going to your material with the intention of finding the proper citation for the code they're playing under so they can then find the exact language they're looking for. At least, that's one way I see your project being incredibly useful.
 
Oct 14, 2020
109
28
Maybe do this as a footnote or something where the information is there, but it's not obtrusive. I think it's important to include because you will have many people going to your material with the intention of finding the proper citation for the code they're playing under so they can then find the exact language they're looking for. At least, that's one way I see your project being incredibly useful.

Footnotes are a good idea.
 
Jul 22, 2020
46
8
I know this thread is old, but I have a question that I think somebody here can answer.

Can you use multiple courtesy runner's in the same half inning of a team's at bat? Catcher and pitcher both reach base for the team batting.
 
Oct 11, 2018
231
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I know this thread is old, but I have a question that I think somebody here can answer.

Can you use multiple courtesy runner's in the same half inning of a team's at bat? Catcher and pitcher both reach base for the team batting.
Yes. You can always use one for F1 and one for F2 even in the same inning as long as the player you put in has not been in the lineup AND you cannot use the same CR for both the F1 and F2. Once a CR is used to CR for F1, that player can only run for F1s. Need different player to CR for the F2s.
 
Jul 22, 2020
46
8
Yes. You can always use one for F1 and one for F2 even in the same inning as long as the player you put in has not been in the lineup AND you cannot use the same CR for both the F1 and F2. Once a CR is used to CR for F1, that player can only run for F1s. Need different player to CR for the F2s.
Thank you for the answer and clarification. We had and incident this weekend where an umpire said you couldn't use 2 courtesy runners in the same inning, but after a heated argument with another coach, the umpire said he meant you couldn't have the same player run for both catcher and pitcher.
 

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