Wrist Snaps

[Hillhouse]

So what is the best way to pracitce wrist snaps? Should you be isolating the wrist snaps? That is part of the warm-up that I do with my daughter every practice.

No, don't isolate the wrist. Instead, incorporate the wrist with the elbow snap and keep it natural. What you see on BM's video is NOT natural. Using wrist only, on knees, while leaning back? Sure maybe the wrist is getting a work out but at what cost? The rest of the bad muscle memory being done in this drill is much worse than the benefit of the wrist flip/snap.

Bill

 

[asurock]

BoardMember, you have a PM.

 

[batsics1]

BM,
When you say, “As the forearm/wrist pass through the Coronal plane” are you speaking of the very brief moment, in golf, when the left hand and clubface are square to the ball at contact; and the brief moment when the hand is behind the ball into release for a pitch?

If I understand correctly, the coronal plane, also referred to as the frontal plane, divides the body in half - front to back - and runs as a parallel sheet through the shoulders and hips. Movements in the coronal plane are essentially lateral such as stepping sideways or lifting the arm directly away from the side of the body.

A golfer creates a diagonal circle to create a swing plane and passing through the coronal plane would be the point at which the arc of the swing, clubhead, hands pass through a point on a line that intersects the golf ball and is parallel to the golfer’s feet. In pitching it would be the point more or less at the back hip where the ball is released. If I am understanding you correctly, than passing through the coronal plane is the moment where the forearm is facing the catcher as it rotates from a supinated to pronated follow through.

I think one of the difficulties that old school teachers have in embracing the idea of external/internal rotation is the emphasis that is placed on wrist cock/snap. When they see the ball facing the sky they don’t see wrist cock and believe without wrist cock you can’t have wrist snap. But, if one could slow the motion down they would see a far more powerful action – wrist lag. The combination of the weight of the ball, and the centrifugal forces of the arm circle and the timing of internal rotation will all cause the wrist to lag behind into release – exactly what you want, a distal segment lagging a more proximal segment. The difference is that wrist cock creates tension at the joint and into the fingers and has to be timed to the arm action. Wrist lag is tension free and creates an impulse to snap that forces the whole system to improve timing to optimize snap. It also allows the fingers more freedom to manipulate the spin of the ball.

Another reason for PCs to react negatively is that it is very easy to put beginning pitchers in static positions and say cock your wrist here and snap there. There are a ton of rote drills that can be passed on like those in the You Tube clip and many months can go by with the PC repeating cock here snap there for a few minutes and then move on to the next student and repeat. A year + later when a young pitcher has ingrained these skills to a point where they are reasonably competent at it, the PC decides it is time to learn a new pitch. The PC then begins to teach, indirectly, how not to do what they spent the last year doing in order to learn the rise, screw and curve as they all require external/internal rotation. I don’t think this is done intentionally by most PCs and is primarily a product of how they learned, but it is ironic IMHO.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Is it possible that wrist snaps loosen up the wrist since its using "dynamic stretching" and also helps show the proper 12-6 rotation of the ball before going into more complex drills (e.g. "T" or "K", flamingo, walk throughs, etc.)? My point is that maybe there are other benefits than the intended one when doing this drill?

 

[Hillhouse]

Is it possible that wrist snaps loosen up the wrist

Ok, assuming she throws overhand before starting her softball pitching... think of how the wrist snaps when throwing a ball (correctly) overhand. The wrist action is the same "snap" as when throwing a softball, it's just above in throwing overhand, instead of below in underhand. So, if she threw overhand first.... she will have already warmed up her wrist.

SoCal, you could be right. There is probably SOME validity to doing things like this if you have the right intent and purpose. But most do not. Most do wrist flips because they saw someone else do it and it's monkey see monkey do. This is done without knowing the negative sides of doing them.

I simply don't understand why anyone would want to just use the wrist for flips, when they could also incorporate the elbow into the snap. Using the elbow doesn't take away from the wrist snap, in fact it enhances it. Pitchers who have a loos elbow on the downswing create much more speed, spin and movement than those with a straight arm. So, it only seems to make sense to me to build that whip action as much as possible, which includes warm ups.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Ok, assuming she throws overhand before starting her softball pitching... think of how the wrist snaps when throwing a ball (correctly) overhand. The wrist action is the same "snap" as when throwing a softball, it's just above in throwing overhand, instead of below in underhand. So, if she threw overhand first.... she will have already warmed up her wrist.

SoCal, you could be right. There is probably SOME validity to doing things like this if you have the right intent and purpose. But most do not. Most do wrist flips because they saw someone else do it and it's monkey see monkey do. This is done without knowing the negative sides of doing them.

I simply don't understand why anyone would want to just use the wrist for flips, when they could also incorporate the elbow into the snap. Using the elbow doesn't take away from the wrist snap, in fact it enhances it. Pitchers who have a loos elbow on the downswing create much more speed, spin and movement than those with a straight arm. So, it only seems to make sense to me to build that whip action as much as possible, which includes warm ups.

Bill - good point about the overhand throw is already loosing up the wrist and elbow.

One thing I do like about the isolated wrist snap is that the pitcher can feel the ball roll off of her fingers and can see the rotation in a very controlled drill. I don't know if it helps or not and my DD only spends about 10 - 15 flip reps on it and then she moves on to more full movement drills, but she has always done it that way. Maybe a wasted 2 - 3 minutes, but doesn't seem to create any harm?

 

[Jojo]

One thing I do like about the isolated wrist snap is that the pitcher can feel the ball roll off of her fingers and can see the rotation in a very controlled drill. I don't know if it helps or not and my DD only spends about 10 - 15 flip reps on it and then she moves on to more full movement drills, but she has always done it that way. Maybe a wasted 2 - 3 minutes, but doesn't seem to create any harm?

I train my beginners on isolated wrist/finger flips. This way I know they know what they are trying to accomplish. About 10 is all ask and sometimes a few during the lesson if I can see they are just flipping the ball up or pushing/shoving it through.

 

[mydogeaston]

It sounds like you're not snapping the wrist. You're snapping Elbow, wrist and fingers in the right sequence. If so, that's great.

Doing "wrist flips" as they are commonly seen and taught is, perhaps, the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. Sure they are working their wrist... as they neglect their elbow and teach themselves to pitch with a straight arm and no elbow snap. Ever see a baseball pitcher lock his elbow and warm up his wrist with doing a wrist flip above his head? Me either.

Bill

ELBOW SNAP, ELBOW SNAP, ELBOW SNAP

Bill stated this years ago and if you google Discuss Fastpitch Elbow Snap it only comes up a few times. Point being and a follower of this website for close to 10 years now.... many still don't get it and may never get it. IR is one thing and extremely important, but you can IR in many ways. There is forearm IR, Upper Arm IR, and the one that links them together which is elbow snap or elbow IR. NO, I am not speaking wrist snap, hello elbow, etc. etc. I am talking IR, brush, with a focus on your elbow shap.

Many will focus on the forearm and wrist IR which will prove great results, accuracy, etc. But if you just throw with your forearm IR you leave tons of power on the table IMO. NOW, focus on that Elbow snapping and you link the upper arm and the forearm together and much more power. Snap the elbow right behing the hip bone. Pretty sure Mike White has said something about the elbow as well.......and it was not Hello Mr. Elbow.

Just a thought......

 

[4 girl's dad]

Daaaannnnggg! You dug up an OLD thread!

Can you provide any video? I think I am agreeing to an extent but isolating the elbow doesnt sound right to me. To me, the whole arm is IRing in sequence. Upper arm, down to the lower arm.

 

[DNeeld]

To me, the whole arm is IRing in sequence.

The whole body does in actuality. But Elbow Snap or "throw the elbow" has always been a decent cue to use.