WARRIORMIKE
Pro-Staff Everything
lmao! No trolls! No trolls!
Why can't the trolls be deleted?
- Thread starter 4 girl's dad
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There is a difference between a poster who has a dissenting or unpopular opinion and a troll. A troll will create controversy or be adversarial for the sole purpose of creating controversy or being adversarial. Sometimes it's for their own amusement, and sometimes it's to further an agenda. The ugliest trolls will often get abusive and/or result to insults.
There is a poster who is active on DFP whose opinions are often unpopular. However, their opinions are still valid. Readers can figure out pretty quickly whether or not the opinion makes sense.
There is also an individual who has made a habit of creating a username, being troll-y, and getting banned. Sometimes they start right away with being ugly, insulting, and often threatening. Other times, they play nice for a while, but eventually the ugly troll is shows up. The topics typically revolve around hitting and pitching mechanics.
There is a poster who is active on DFP whose opinions are often unpopular. However, their opinions are still valid. Readers can figure out pretty quickly whether or not the opinion makes sense.
There is also an individual who has made a habit of creating a username, being troll-y, and getting banned. Sometimes they start right away with being ugly, insulting, and often threatening. Other times, they play nice for a while, but eventually the ugly troll is shows up. The topics typically revolve around hitting and pitching mechanics.
I will weigh on this since it's my responsibility, along with Amy and Ray (Sluggers). What has been said here is essentially what happens.
We ban the obvious trolls. Some people come onto Internet forums merely to cause trouble, get people riled up and be disruptive. They do get banned. Eric is right - we ban screen names and IP addresses. Those who really want to continue causing trouble find ways around it for a while. They'll even behave for a while to hide their identities. But eventually their true colors come out and we ban them again. Those are the real trolls. They're not just contrarians. They are out to create problems for everyone and derail the good conversations.
That said, banning users is not something we take lightly. We'd rather not do it. Sometimes people get angry about stupid stuff and get out of hand, but once we "talk" to them about it they regain control and continue to be productive members.
All of that is different than people posting information that is "stupid" or "blatantly wrong." You might say in some cases it's obvious, but only from a particular point of view. If the consensus of this Forum was that the proper way to pitch (for example) is slam the door shut and do hello elbow, anyone speaking against it would be perceived as wrong.
If we wanted to go that way, though, who makes the decision of what can stay and what must go? The moderators? A consensus-appointed group of "experts" in each area? Pretty soon you're down to a very narrow view, and that's not what an open forum is about.
It's not illegal or immoral to have "stupid" ideas, or to have a personal agenda based on our own life experiences. Each of us has a right to our own opinions, no matter how misguided they may be. As has been said, it is the responsibility of each member to look at the information, decide what's good and usable, and throw out the rest. Sure, there may be some missteps along the way before you figure out what's wheat and what's chaff. But it's all part of the learning process.
My guess is most experienced coaches here will tell you they have learned, grown and changed along the way. They tried some things that didn't work out, or even abandoned things that worked when they discovered something better. I know that has certainly been my experience. Some of that has been as the result of people with whom I don't necessarily agree. If you're not challenging your beliefs on a daily basis you ought to be. You want to be sure that you're not just relying on old information because it's comfortable or easy to do. My guess is it doesn't take the newbies too long to figure out who is providing good, quality information backed by facts and experience and who is merely spouting tripe.
Incidentally, this doesn't just happen here. You put up a forum about apple pie and unicorns, you'll soon have people flaming each other and people posting offbeat ideas. It's the nature of the Internet, especially with its anonymity. Best thing to do is keep an open mind and your sense of humor. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
We ban the obvious trolls. Some people come onto Internet forums merely to cause trouble, get people riled up and be disruptive. They do get banned. Eric is right - we ban screen names and IP addresses. Those who really want to continue causing trouble find ways around it for a while. They'll even behave for a while to hide their identities. But eventually their true colors come out and we ban them again. Those are the real trolls. They're not just contrarians. They are out to create problems for everyone and derail the good conversations.
That said, banning users is not something we take lightly. We'd rather not do it. Sometimes people get angry about stupid stuff and get out of hand, but once we "talk" to them about it they regain control and continue to be productive members.
All of that is different than people posting information that is "stupid" or "blatantly wrong." You might say in some cases it's obvious, but only from a particular point of view. If the consensus of this Forum was that the proper way to pitch (for example) is slam the door shut and do hello elbow, anyone speaking against it would be perceived as wrong.
If we wanted to go that way, though, who makes the decision of what can stay and what must go? The moderators? A consensus-appointed group of "experts" in each area? Pretty soon you're down to a very narrow view, and that's not what an open forum is about.
It's not illegal or immoral to have "stupid" ideas, or to have a personal agenda based on our own life experiences. Each of us has a right to our own opinions, no matter how misguided they may be. As has been said, it is the responsibility of each member to look at the information, decide what's good and usable, and throw out the rest. Sure, there may be some missteps along the way before you figure out what's wheat and what's chaff. But it's all part of the learning process.
My guess is most experienced coaches here will tell you they have learned, grown and changed along the way. They tried some things that didn't work out, or even abandoned things that worked when they discovered something better. I know that has certainly been my experience. Some of that has been as the result of people with whom I don't necessarily agree. If you're not challenging your beliefs on a daily basis you ought to be. You want to be sure that you're not just relying on old information because it's comfortable or easy to do. My guess is it doesn't take the newbies too long to figure out who is providing good, quality information backed by facts and experience and who is merely spouting tripe.
Incidentally, this doesn't just happen here. You put up a forum about apple pie and unicorns, you'll soon have people flaming each other and people posting offbeat ideas. It's the nature of the Internet, especially with its anonymity. Best thing to do is keep an open mind and your sense of humor. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Well today one said there is no professional Fastpitch teams.
WARRIORMIKE
Pro-Staff Everything
Eric. Your post is way out in right field for me to understand this? Can you please guide me to center or the left side please? LMAO!
OILF - I think you missed my point, and are taking my use of "unpopular" a out of context. By "unpopular, I meant in opposition to the general consensus of opinion by DFP'ers on a particular topic. I was attempting to clarify the difference between a dissenter and a troll (which was the topic of discussion). Dissenting opinions are often the catalyst to good discussion and important learning, and are a critical part of a public discussion forum format. If I/you want to hear only one opinion, there are plenty of places for that, too.
Also...if you thought the "poster who is active on DFP whose opinions are often unpopular" was in reference to you, it wasn't. At the moment I wrote it, I was thinking of someone else. However, if the shoe fits...
Also...if you thought the "poster who is active on DFP whose opinions are often unpopular" was in reference to you, it wasn't. At the moment I wrote it, I was thinking of someone else. However, if the shoe fits...
- Jun 19, 2013
- 753
- 28
"If you're talking about dissent, or in some cases as I would put it, naivete, well look at the make up of the posters here. Are there any former players? How many moms are there? How many posters with DDs in college? How many college coaches, or actual pitching or hitting instructors, etc.? How many former players pop in, then decide to leave as soon as they came in? Of course, you can point to success stories or other interests or some generation gap, but in general, something here is not what those groups who actually played or who teach now feel comfortable joining."
I just feel like this is so short sighted. There are a number of reasons that the people who are on here frequent this place, and just because there isn't a higher percentage of some of the people that you mentioned doesn't mean it's not a valuable site. Not to mention that you don't have any idea how many actual coaches, mom's, former players are on here. And let's just add that many of the people like former players and coaches might not be looking for advice on-line since they probably don't feel they need help so don't even know about this place. The people who find this site are people who are generally seeking something and are desperate enough to google a random question regarding "how to help my daughter in softball" and stumble across us.
Some people who would qualify as a valuable poster to you just might not have lives that revolve around the internet. They don't have the option in their every day lives to be on here looking at posts and adding their two cents. Does that mean they disagree with what is being taught?? not necessarily. You can't say that the fact that more current college coaches aren't contributing means they don't support what is going on. The same with recent players. How do we even know they know about it? Maybe they know about it but aren't interested in volunteering their opinions and having people fawn all over them.
I always try to at least consider you point of view whenever you have input on a subject because I do value that you have experience at some level that I myself don't. But sometimes the whole attitude of you are all a bunch of stupid parents who don't actually know anything because you never played at a high level gets a little tiring.
I just feel like this is so short sighted. There are a number of reasons that the people who are on here frequent this place, and just because there isn't a higher percentage of some of the people that you mentioned doesn't mean it's not a valuable site. Not to mention that you don't have any idea how many actual coaches, mom's, former players are on here. And let's just add that many of the people like former players and coaches might not be looking for advice on-line since they probably don't feel they need help so don't even know about this place. The people who find this site are people who are generally seeking something and are desperate enough to google a random question regarding "how to help my daughter in softball" and stumble across us.
Some people who would qualify as a valuable poster to you just might not have lives that revolve around the internet. They don't have the option in their every day lives to be on here looking at posts and adding their two cents. Does that mean they disagree with what is being taught?? not necessarily. You can't say that the fact that more current college coaches aren't contributing means they don't support what is going on. The same with recent players. How do we even know they know about it? Maybe they know about it but aren't interested in volunteering their opinions and having people fawn all over them.
I always try to at least consider you point of view whenever you have input on a subject because I do value that you have experience at some level that I myself don't. But sometimes the whole attitude of you are all a bunch of stupid parents who don't actually know anything because you never played at a high level gets a little tiring.
Well said, Ken. I think the moderators do an excellent job!
I have been on this board for a few years now and have never read the word troll as much as I have in the last few mos. Sometimes I can't figure out if I'm reading a softball forum or a JRR Tolkein book!
Is there some unwritten rule that says trollish behavior has to be responded too? More often than not there's a little bit of "troll" in all of us. Like wild animals, if you don't feed the trolls they will go away.
I have been on this board for a few years now and have never read the word troll as much as I have in the last few mos. Sometimes I can't figure out if I'm reading a softball forum or a JRR Tolkein book!
Is there some unwritten rule that says trollish behavior has to be responded too? More often than not there's a little bit of "troll" in all of us. Like wild animals, if you don't feed the trolls they will go away.
It turns out that this sport is largely fueled by "stupid parents" because they are the ones who volunteer to coach their DDs AND a flock of other young ladies season after season. Sometimes those "stupid parents" turn out to be pretty good coaches and have a very positive affect on the future for a few (or more) of those young ladies.
Now that I think about it, Mike Candrea and Mike White never played girls' fastpitch softball, either. Morons. Clearly.
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