Why aren’t there 11u divisions/competitions?

[FP26]

I stated facts...I wasn’t making fun of anybody. I am ugly as sin so no GQ won’t be calling me.

Oh and live in OK too so that average number I gave is probably higher here since OK isn’t exactly a state full of decathletes...

I read your post, saw the post stating that you were making fun of someone, so I read your post again. Then I read it a 3rd time. Looks like facts to me. Unfortunately sometimes facts are not popular...

 

[Bernmoll]

Curious, how would you define a rough first year? What kind of W-L record? And are you in an area with a lot of teams, or few teams?

My daughter's teams finished with similar W-L records whether it was first- or second-year, usually around .500, until she got on a really good second-year 14U team. That was her 6th season. Her second-year teams were always stronger, but played tougher schedules.

But if you're in an area with fewer teams, then it might be hard finding appropriate competition, but then it would be even more unrealistic to have 11U and 12U if there aren't many teams.

Our win-loss record is probably a 7-10 or so for the season to date. DD’s team isn’t trophy hunting by any means. They do a mix of small local tournaments and larger PGF/USSSA ones. They’ve entered more single elimination tournaments instead of double elimination with a gold/silver bracket. When the team has lost to older 12u teams (teams we played had graduation years on their jerseys and you can tell because of their size), the point differential on the loss is almost always huge - like 22-5 or 18-6, 12-0. Always something to learn from any game but boy, it’s sometimes brutal to watch.

 

[_MIA_]

I read your post, saw the post stating that you were making fun of someone, so I read your post again. Then I read it a 3rd time. Looks like facts to me. Unfortunately sometimes facts are not popular...

My intent certainly wasn't to make fun of a 12 YO although I can see how he would take it that way I guess. I was actually shocked to see that average waist size for adult females..I wasn't expecting that.

 

[radness]

regardless of size at any age. An experienced 13 year old has a higher potential of hitting off my newly minted 40’ pitcher over the fence. An experienced 13 year old can hit pitching speeds and have ball placement that my 11 yr old has limited experience seeing.

This is talent disparity.

And YES this still happens in all age levels!!!

Very noticeably when
Example
PGF hands out there invitations to teams that didnt/couldnt qualify and have to play the teams that earned a birth
( because their talent earned a birth)!
And when the 'lower' talented team faces the 'we earned our birth' talented team...
The 'lower' talented team gets a chance...
To try and beat a roster of players that are going to crush the ball.

Even at
Showcasing events have really shown this talent disparity. Where teams are not matched well. And powerful hitters face batting practice.
And weaker hitters face a lot more strikeouts.

That all said
Will add, imo
Goals are most important when selecting the right team to play on!
it may be really neat to play in 12u and crush the ball, and crush the ball, and crush the ball against weaker pitching... Then, if you had the chance to play on one of the top teams in the nation 12u and had to hit against the top pitchers in 12u all the time, you might have a different softball experience. That doesnt really happen monthly/weekly tho.

But at 12u a player thats pounding the ball hitting .800 might be better
served to move up to 14u... They could face better pitching.
Sooooo that depends on what your goal is
hit .800 and not be challenged.
or hit .300 while being challenged.

As noted earlier
12u has more choices in
'levels' to play rec included.
That means 12u newbie pitchers have a choice where to play.
Perhaps the real delema is parents/coaches not being 'accurate' of there teams talent level 'assessment' .

 

[Nimrod]

Our win-loss record is probably a 7-10 or so for the season to date. DD’s team isn’t trophy hunting by any means. They do a mix of small local tournaments and larger PGF/USSSA ones. They’ve entered more single elimination tournaments instead of double elimination with a gold/silver bracket. When the team has lost to older 12u teams (teams we played had graduation years on their jerseys and you can tell because of their size), the point differential on the loss is almost always huge - like 22-5 or 18-6, 12-0. Always something to learn from any game but boy, it’s sometimes brutal to watch.

The 7-10 record is not that much of a struggle, but I agree that scores of 22-5, 18-6 and 12-0 vs. an otherwise average team (relative to the level you're playing) is cause to question how a tournament (or even organization) is setting things up. But again, my take wouldn't be ''Why are these older teams being mixed with younger teams?'' but rather ''Why are teams that are 12+ runs apart in skill level being placed in the same skill division?" It's more practical for a tournament director to add skill more skill divisions (ie, A and B) than to add additional age divisions. I've seen our local USSSA org split teams essentially by age, but it's still called A and B in case there's a crummy older team that needs to play B and a really good younger team that needs to play A. Goal should be to have as many close games as possible. Scores of 22-5, 18-6 and 12-0 is an embarrassment to a tournament director unless there weren't enough teams to divide (or unless it's an open division).

 

[FP26]

And YES this still happens in all age levels!!!

I have told this story before, but it could be fitting here. When DD was technically 2nd year 18u she didn't play 18u. Her and several teammates were graduating in May of that year, so by the time tournaments started, they were high school graduates. Each was preparing to play college ball. We wanted to prepare them for college ball, so we decided to play 23u instead of 18u. We knew several other girls that were already playing college ball, so we asked them to join our team. Ages ranged from 18 to 23.

One tournament we attended planned to have a 23u bracket and a Women's bracket. They didn't have enough teams, so they combined brackets. We decided to have a college senior start the first game for us. As the pitcher for the other team started warming up, our pitcher stated "this is awesome, I get to pitch against my pitching coach". The woman starting for the other team was actually our pitcher's coach. She was 38 years old at that time. 16 year age difference between the two of them. We ended up winning that game 4-3.

 

[bmakj]

this begs the question, how much time/effort do TDs put into separating teams into pool. around here, most teams self classify, and it seems TDs simply take that at face value. in fact, for a lot of the non sanctioned tournaments (ie not USA/USSSA/etc.), the events are simply open, with all teamsin an age bracket in a single pool (albeit most of these are smaller, normally about 12 team affiars).

in fact, our state championship in one sanction I fear is going to be made an open (or at least A and B combined), because of a lack of A teams.

 

[radness]

22-5
18-6
12-0
lets analyze whats really going on with that team

 

[radness]

this begs the question, how much time/effort do TDs put into separating teams into pool. around here, most teams self classify, and it seems TDs simply take that at face value. in fact, for a lot of the non sanctioned tournaments (ie not USA/USSSA/etc.), the events are simply open, with all teamsin an age bracket in a single pool (albeit most of these are smaller, normally about 12 team affiars).

in fact, our state championship in one sanction I fear is going to be made an open (or at least A and B combined), because of a lack of A teams.

Do they still pull names out of a hat ? Lol

 

[uncdrew]

There are 2009 teams here (metro Atlanta area/ N Ga) that play in 12O or 12A, 12B and 11O. A couple of them dominate when they play in 12B, struggle against second year 12U teams when they play in 12O or 12A, and find good parity when they play in the area USSSA 11O tournaments- but always play the same relatively small group of 11O teams. Some of the 11O teams are packed with large athletic girls. So it seems 11O is a good option for young single year 12U teams that will likely be competing at 12A the next year but it can’t be the only option if they want some variety. When my (mid B) 12U team was in its first year we had one older player so weren’t eligible for 11O... but they would have been a bad place for us to play except for an occasional stretch tournament where we would know we were likely going home early. There don’t seem to be enough mid level single year teams for 11B to make sense here. Instead TDs (not of national sanctions but the smaller local ones) offer tournaments for “first year” teams (meaning teams in their first year of 12U together) or they separate out a C/ Rookie division. That seems in line with RAD Catchers thinking.


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You describe it perfectly. We're one of those North Georgia, above average 2009 12B teams. When we play 11O, we finish in the middle. 12B we finish towards the top and beat plenty of 2008 teams. But yes, the 11O is the same teams over and over. It does get a bit old playing those same 5-6 teams.