What exactly qualifies a pitcher as 'Elite'?

[halskinner]

I have heard so many on this board say "Watch the elite pitchers and do what they do". I have al;ways wondered exactly what qualifies ANY pitcher to be considered 'Elite'.

Does throwing at a certain speed qualify you as an elite pitcher? Lets say 70mph, maybe? I would classify a pitcher that can do that as having exceptionally good speed, but, elite? I dont know if I would go that far.

Would uising a particular pitching style automatically qualify them? Dont think so there either.

Specific pitching mechanics? Surely not. I gotta tell ya I have seen videos here being described as an ;Elite' pitcher that should be emulated that I felt she had awful mechanics so I dont think this can qualify them either.

Is it because they are pitching for a college? I dont think that can qualify them either. I consider any group referred to as 'Elite' to be a SMALL group of the very best. There are surely hundred and hundreds of coillege pitchers out therfe. Some have winning records and some not so good. It takes the entgire team to win a game so that stat alone surely cant be used.

Pitching stats alone? Not certain there but maybe. Debateable for sure. I remember 2 games I pitched many years ago, 14 Ks and 17Ks. We lost both 1-0 and 2-1. My stats were great, for the 2 games I got to piotch that turney. I dont think anyone could consider me elit that weekend

Should a college pitcher be considered elite if she had a tremendous high school record? I dont think so. She would have to carry that same dominating pitching performances against a new group of 'Better and more experienced' hitters before she could be considered an 'Elite' college pitcher.

If they try out for and are chosen for the USA national team? Possibly. It is quite an honor. Although, I have seen very very good pitchers anbd other position players try out for a team and simply have an awful day and not get chosen for the team. The next Michelle Smith might have been there, had a bad day and sent home. Who knows.

Is the fact a pitcher is on the roster of a big name college in D1 qualify her as 'Elite'? Not so sure there either. I have had talented students get scvholarship offers from D1 and D2 schools. They the D2 schools because the curriculum was on-line with the degree they wanted to achieve. But doubtful anyone ever consideres a D2 pitcher as an Elite pitcher. 'Cant be that goold of a pitcher if shes in D2, that kind of mentality.

I have seen pitchers referred to as elite that I watched on TV and had to think "OMG I hope no young pitcher watches this and tries to copy her!"

Is the determining factor as simple as the pitcher got a scholarship to college, is that a determining factor?

So I dont know, thats why I am asking. What exactly qualifies a pitcher for that 'Elite' status?

 

[BoardMember]

Wow........Really?? All that for the definition of an elite pitcher?

Dictionary:

a singular or plural in construction : the choice part : cream <the elite of the entertainment world>
b singular or plural in construction : the best of a class <superachievers>

Pretty much sums it up doesn't it...........

 

[halskinner]

So Ken,

If the 'Pitches for a college' is a qualifier, Do we have, what, 1,000 'Elite' pitchers? 500?

I always looked at the term 'Elite' as a small group of the very best. US Navy - a SEAL team as an example.

Youtube hits surely cant be a qualifer. A pitcher can have a youtube video that can be seen as a good example or a bad example. Dont think a youtube video hits can make a pitcher attain elite status.

How many times on this board has someone simply posted a video and said do what this elite pitcher does? They cant explain what to do to fix whatever the problem is that was the original question asked, so show em a video and see if they can get it from there??? Explain what is wrong and explain how to correct it. Explain it so that 'Dad' can explain it to the 'kid'.

This is why just showing a video and saying do it like that, just doesnt sit well with.

 

[Ken B]

Forgive my cheekiness. Pulled that post to show a little more respect.

Elite is what we make of it. There is no certification program to become elite. We see individuals have success on a stage, whether it be NCAA post season, international or professional performance and say, "Wow, I think he/she is elite." We take several of those that we (whoever "we" are...) deem as elite and look at patterns. Using stats, judgment and opinion, we tend to make assuptions about form. History is our best indicator of the future. Although the future repeatedly seems to show that even our most confident assumptions were wrong, it's the collective process of study of these "elites" that leads us to learn, grow and hopefully teach.

 

[halskinner]

Forgive my cheekiness. Pulled that post to show a little more respect.

Elite is what we make of it. There is no certification program to become elite. We see individuals have success on a stage, whether it be NCAA post season, international or professional performance and say, "Wow, I think he/she is elite." We take several of those that we (whoever "we" are...) deem as elite and look at patterns. Using stats, judgment and opinion, we tend to make assuptions about form. History is our best indicator of the future. Although the future repeatedly seems to show that even our most confident assumptions were wrong, it's the collective process of study of these "elites" that leads us to learn, grow and hopefully teach.

I understand that Ken.

Now, what do you use to determine what YOU consider an elite pitcher is?

 

[Ken B]

Opinion.lkdladfjkladfjk

 

[CoachFP]

Hal, you ask what "qualifies" one as elite. Nothing because there is no standard to relate to. Elite to me would be if you polled about 100 people who are very familiar with the game at its highest level and asked them who they would have pitching if you had to win one and only one game. You'd come up with a real short list of "elite" pitchers.

 

[JJsqueeze]

we all know it when we see it, it cannot be quantified. If there was an argument about what it was then you'd see a lot more contention when people refer to Ueno/Osterman/Finch/Tincher/Ricketts/Hillhouse/my daughter/BMs Daughter/that 6 year old in the other thread/all of Kens students... the list goes on and on, as elite.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

My opinion is it boils down to this:

The highest K/BB stat pitcher playing at the highest national level.

(intentionally avoiding debate over what org they play in PGF/ASA/NSA/USSSA/etc)

 

[Ken B]

My opinion is it boils down to this:

The highest K/BB stat pitcher playing at the highest national level.

(intentionally avoiding debate over what org they play in PGF/ASA/NSA/USSSA/etc)

Ooooh... good one!

Ok, Ricketts or Gascoinge?!