What ages/levels advanced pitches

[her #1 fan]

My daughter is 10. She has always been very consistant and has been able to hit her corners since about 9. She throws about 47 mph on average fast ball. She also has a very accurate flip change and knuckle change. Screw ball is either off or on...doesn't always get that tight spin she needs. Her drop ball and flip change are just wicked and keep a lot of batters off balance. We are relearning the curve ball now....she had a tendency to sling it across her body (although very effective in 10U didn't want this for the long term). I am really concerned about her throwing this pitch very much. I know how much stress this can cause on a pitcher. I'm not saying she is the next Jenni or Cat but she does have a ton of potential (been told by a lot of instructors). What are your thoughts on the curve @ this age or any age. When should a pitcher begin to throw this and how much?

 

[Phoenix]

Sorry, but I usually get a bit skeptical when a young pitcher is able to throw different pitches with the correct spin. Fastball/change, sure. Drop/curve/screw ? I...dunno. Could be I guess. All three of those pitches are potential arm killers when not thrown correctly. By arm killer, I mean arm/shoulder/elbow killer. Pitching career over type injuries. I would be hesitant to have her throw any of the advanced movement pitches if I wasn't positive that she was mechanically correct by good reputable coaching.

 

[sluggers]

How hard it is to get 10 year old batters off-balance? Usually, all it takes is for someone to yell "Miley Cyrus", and their knees buckle.

You really need to make sure her pitching form is solid before going too crazy with breaking pitches. It is pretty easy to get a girl to throw 50 mph. (All they really to do is swing the arm and twist the hips--which is horrible form.) Getting her up over 60 mph is much, much more difficult. If she has bad form, she will never get there.

Further, a girl's body changes a lot around 12 YOA. If her form isn't good, she won't be able to get the ball near the plate when she is 13. I can't begin to count the number of great 12U pitchers that never pitched an inning in high school.

 

[Phoenix]

Ready, Set, Don't Go by Miley and Billy Ray Cyrus is a real tear jerker if you have a daughter heading off to college in six weeks.

 

[her #1 fan]

She does have great form and I am with the next person, I don't want her doing things that will potentially hurt her. She is with a VERY reputible coach (played @ the collegiate and professional level).
She has always been very consistant like i said and has been able to hit her spots with great accuracy. She will be moving to 12U in the fall and she can throw a drop and screw with the correct spins. She knows what pitches should spin in what direction. Sorry....she has a head for the game and picks up things very well. Where we are from, she is definitely not the fastest pitcher but she is one that will make a team pay!
BTW...don't know where you all are from but where we play, the 10's can really hit the ball!
I don't know why everyone is so negative about keeping the hitters off balance....most 10U pitchers throw fastballs....if you have one that can mix it up even a little...you WILL keep them off balance.

I didn't come on here saying she can throw a rise ball and a curve ball that moves a foot. Like I said the pitches she throws, she throws correct but I still don't want her doing things that could potentially end her days of pitching too early. My original question was how bad the curve is on a young girl or anyone for that matter??

 

[her #1 fan]

Hi Everyone,

I got this info from Marc Dagenais website.

Average Softball Pitching Speed

Age, Average Speed, Top Speed

10u, 37 - 41 mph, 43 - 46 mph

12u, 44 - 47 mph, 50 - 53 mph

14u, 46 - 49 mph, 52 - 55 mph

16u, 50 - 53 mph, 54 - 57 mph

18u, 53 - 56 mph, 58 - 61 mph

College, 59 - 64 mph, 65 - 72 mph

This should give everybody an idea where their dd stands. Just remember there are exceptions to the rule and speed isn't everything. Location and movement trump speed.

Pops

This is very interested. completely agree with you on location and movement.

 

[Rick Pauly]

Slugger
I don't understand why you would stay away from viewing elite level pitchers? I've heard the same statement relative to hitting.
Do you suggest it is better to emulate a pitcher that is less than elite? Curious as to what an elite level pitcher does that you wouldn't want your pitcher to do.
Are you suggesting to train to be sub-optimum?

Do you disagree with specifically focusing on mechanics from the 12 o'clock thru release motion?

I agree totally that it is imperitive to get with a good pitching instructor---but I'd be certain that instructor is attempting to progress my pitcher to the absolute highest level.

 

[sluggers]

So, should we pull out tapes of Willie Mays playing centerfield and then teach outfielders the basket catch since Mays was the best outfielder the world has ever seen? Or perhaps kids should use a 44 ounce bat (like Babe Ruth)? Or maybe start them in the Stan Musial crouch when they bat?

And when you teach a kid how to play golf, do you show them the Tiger Woods 2000 swing when he won the US Open or the Tiger Woods 2006 swing when he won the US Open? (He learned a different swing in 2004.)

The reality is that the elite players are exceptional athletes with far superior eye-hand coordination, strength and speed than the rest of us. Attempting to emulate them is risky. There are certain things that can be applied to "the rest of us", and there are things we had best forget (like wrapping the club around your neck like Woods did in 2000).

E.g., the average height of a women in the US is 5'4". Osterman is 6'2", Finch is 6'0", and Abbott is 6'3". So, the random 10YO pitcher is unlikely to be even close to as tall as any of them.

Further, the athletes have fine tuned their athletic motion to get the most they can out of their bodies. Osterman, Finch and Abbott each have a unique motion. They aren't the same. (Parts of the motion are the similar, parts are not.)

Right now, I suspect that a bunch of 10YO kids are more concerned with doing the Abbott pre-pitch crouch instead of focusing on a good circle and a smooth release.

JRW

 

[ifubuildit]

Sluggers

Right now, I suspect that a bunch of 10YO kids are more concerned with doing the Abbott pre-pitch crouch instead of focusing on a good circle and a smooth release.

JRW

Your looking a pre motion with Monica Abbott when the focus needs to be where the elite pitchers are at release. There are many different pre motions out there today in female pitching. The pre motion of Monica is different than Cats which is different than Jenny. Yet all are called "Elite" pitchers. Which is better in your mind?

At one time they were 10 year olds too. Who probably emulated Lisa Fernandez or Michelle Smith. Who are different than all 3 of them. If I am going to show a student a clip of Tiger Woods I would show them the clip of him with his Dad on Carson at the age of 4 hitting golf balls. Then show them a clip of his swing today.

Look at where he started and look where he is today. At the age of 4 did we know he was going to be an elite athlete? You many have on standing next to you on a pitchers plate and not know it because she is 9 and doesnt have the strength or stamina to be consistent. In the next 6 years she may become that elite athlete.

Point is dont sell any of them short. They may just be the goose that turns into the swan.

Elliott.

 

[sluggers]

I don't think Abbott's pitching motion is better than Ostermann's or Finch's. These pitchers have learned to pitch the best way they can to fit their unique set of abilities. For a person to develop into a great pitcher, that person has to develop her own unique style. Osterman's style wouldn't fit Finch, and Finch's style wouldn't fit Abbott.

Tying to emulate everything what one of the elite pitchers does is pointless. Watching these athletes for specific things can be helpful (e.g., the arm motion).

As to elite athletes: They aren't particularly hard to pick out from a crowd. They are faster, stronger, and have better eye-hand coordination than everyone else almost from birth. I did stand next to Candace Parker when she was 8 YOA, and I knew then she was going to be a great basketball player. And, I did watch Samantha Findlay take batting practice at 11 YOA, and she was amazing.