What age to start throwing from knees?

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May 17, 2012
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When I see tangible hard evidence where there's even the slightest advantage to throwing a runner out from the knees i assure you I'll change my view. My reputation is at stake. As of today I see nothing supporting that view. Maybe a few scattered anecdotes on the interweb from strangers but I can't put a players livelihood on the line and risk injury for a net loss

You are right throwing from the knees is not best practice. The data shows it's actually slower when throwing from the knees to second base.

I definitely wouldn't be teaching sub-optimal catching techniques to 10-12 year olds....focus on best practices that will help the catcher and the team during a game.
 

radness

Possibilities & Opportunities!
Dec 13, 2019
7,270
113
Again there is more to throwing pop times than just throwing speed!

The fastest mph may not be the best pop time!
Has to do with efficiency in mechanics.

Have been timing both
Throwing speed
And
Overall pop times
2 seperate measurements.

As for throwing speeds from feet vs knees. Theey are often equal.
Sometimes one style is faster
( slightly 2mph) than the other.
There are catchers who are producing faster throw speeds from knee thsn they are feet.
Some other way around.

Do NOT ignore the benefit of the faster knee/knees mechanics!
Less time can be more efficient!!

Example
Throwing say 55mph either from feet or knees.
For some athletes it will take longer to get to feet to throw.
The quicker mechanics of throwing from knees helps them prouduce a faster pop time.

It would be wise to recognize the useful tool of throwing from knees on dirt pitches!
 
Last edited:
May 6, 2015
2,397
113
simplifying, the critical metric is pop time, or as I called it before I got indoctrinated to the lingo, leather to leather time, time it hits catchers mitt (not secured, hits it) to time it hits or goes past SS glove or over base (to take into account differences in SS abilities), that is crucial time. velocity is meaning less except for oohs and aahs for those who know no better. I have seen countless catchers rocket hard line drive throws to 2B much harder than DDs throw downs . . . who had no chance to catch a runner stealing because that throw was from a step in front of HP after taking 3 steps after the catch. not even good for intiimidation if offensive coach is really watching.
 

radness

Possibilities & Opportunities!
Dec 13, 2019
7,270
113
For those that think that throwing from knees is slower,
(cannot speak to the mechanics you are reffering to)
Will agree
that there are less effective mechanics and
more productive/efficient mechanics.
This is regarding both
feet and knees mechanics!

Having the experience for over 3 decades of catchers going off to college....
Routinely have recorded catchers throwing over 65mph.
With equally compairable timed throws from feet and knees.
My feedback comes from working with many many different shapes sizes and ability levels. Work for years with most students.
Have colleges attend timing students.
Its not an eyeball test.
Its timing devices!

14 year olds throwing 62-64 mph. Proving it time and time again from feet and knees!!

16 year olds throwing 68-69 mph again from feet and knees!

Pop times under 1.8 and under 1.7 even on dirt pitches!
This feedback comes from a catcher who
threw more from my feet.
Very fast body.
Thankfully i use actual hands on experience with facts to share recognizing not all catchers are as fast.
*Important to note~
it takes more than just throwing speed to have a great pop time!

Learn to use all throwing tools!
*It is the responsibility of the catcher to control the runners!
Even on dirt pitches!
 
Last edited:

radness

Possibilities & Opportunities!
Dec 13, 2019
7,270
113
Lets take a look at efficient throwing mechanics with throwing speed.

Both of these catchers break 1.7 pop times. Feet&knee's
Both throw 68-69 mph from feet and knee/knees by age 16.
Camille is playing D1 now.
Think, was 16 in video.
The other h.s. senior now.
Think, was 13 in video.



Video provided by a parent to use.
 
Last edited:
May 17, 2012
2,804
113
Again there is more to throwing pop times than just throwing speed!

The fastest mph may not be the best pop time!
Has to do with efficiency in mechanics.

Have been timing both
Throwing speed
And
Overall pop times
2 seperate measurements.

As for throwing speeds from feet vs knees. Theey are often equal.
Sometimes one style is faster
( slightly 2mph) than the other.
There are catchers who are producing faster throw speeds from knee thsn they are feet.
Some other way around.

Do NOT ignore the benefit of the faster knee/knees mechanics!
Less time can be more efficient!!

Example
Throwing say 55mph either from feet or knees.
For some athletes it will take longer to get to feet to throw.
The quicker mechanics of throwing from knees helps them prouduce a faster pop time.

It would be wise to recognize the useful tool of throwing from knees on dirt pitches!

This has been discussed before and the NECC disagrees with your assumptions.

 

radness

Possibilities & Opportunities!
Dec 13, 2019
7,270
113
They are NOT assumptions.

Will see if you can actually answer a simple question by
paying attention to the requirement of catchers on dirt pitches.
Cant ignore the facts of efficient mechanics and
the EXCELLENT RESULTS with the neccessity to throw out runners on dirt pitches!

Question
@Gunner & @625
Do you actually think its faster to go to knees to then jump to feet?
Btw.
Pop times in fastpitch have a faster requirement than the mlb!
Even in 14u !
 
Last edited:
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
Pop times in fastpitch have a faster requirement than the mlb!
Even in 14u !
Come on Rad..while technically true, since the distances (to both run and throw) are larger in MLB that really isn't a fair statement. You would need to scale things in order to make any true comparisons.
 
May 23, 2015
999
63
simplifying, the critical metric is pop time, or as I called it before I got indoctrinated to the lingo, leather to leather time, time it hits catchers mitt (not secured, hits it) to time it hits or goes past SS glove or over base (to take into account differences in SS abilities), that is crucial time. velocity is meaning less except for oohs and aahs for those who know no better. I have seen countless catchers rocket hard line drive throws to 2B much harder than DDs throw downs . . . who had no chance to catch a runner stealing because that throw was from a step in front of HP after taking 3 steps after the catch. not even good for intiimidation if offensive coach is really watching.
Velocity is everything dont kid yourself.
A properly trained catcher can gain 5 to 6 feet of ground in their sleep while on their feet. You cant do that on your knees. Add significantly more velocity and you win. Again, why not train infielders to field a ground ball and throw from their knees if its faster?? Everyone love a bang bang 6-3 from your knees

If throwing from your knees is advantageous multimillionaires on MLB would do it wholesale. They dont because its not

Knees work for immobile catchers. Athletic catchers are far better off gaining ground
 
May 23, 2015
999
63
Pop times in fastpitch have a faster requirement than the mlb!
Even in 14u !
That's a ridiculous statement. Clearly you know neither. I shouldn't bother but here goes.

Whats the time margin of safe to out in both sports? MLB is about a quarter of a second
 

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