What’s consider crow hop/leaping

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Nov 20, 2020
995
93
SW Missouri
Good to read first hand experience!

I’m far from an expert. Just relaying what I’ve found.

As far as the rules discussion is concerned....if thems the rules then thems the rules. Call it as an umpire and/or protest it as a coach. But how you address it at 8u vs HS or TB are two entirely different situations. If a girl is playing high school and still intentionally leaping/crow hopping then she deserves the IP call. She knows better. Or should know better. Again, dragging the foot is not that hard to remember or make happen. Doing it efficiently is what’s hard. Obviously there’s plenty of elite pitchers who are lights out and toe drag within the rules.

I’ve never umpired, but comparing enforcement of leaping/crow hopping to enforcing the strike zone isn’t the same to me. Enforcing the drag foot is so much easier to do. It’s easier to see and measure. Definitely more black and white. Crow hopping even more so.

We played a game against a pitcher who’s drive foot would actually come forward off the rubber right as she launched. More of a slip. I (as an AC) didn’t read it as intentional and advised the HC as such. He caught it before I did. Did give her an advantage? Maybe. I didn’t think so. We didn’t say anything. Would it have mentally messed her up had we made something out of it? Maybe. But it was 12u rec league and our girls were hitting her fine. Not the same as a leap or crow hop. But, more towards the situational part of the discussion.


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Nov 20, 2020
995
93
SW Missouri
did you also put time and energy into asking the strike zone to be from the armpits to the knees? That is never enforced.

You know.......I try and all I get from blue is dirty looks and a smaller strike zone the next time one of our pitchers is up. /joke


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Mar 28, 2014
1,081
113
I want the rule book called and in our HS rules, the high strike is below the bottom of the sternum. In TB I wanted the book called. In HS I want the book called. If the book is called, we all know what the strike zone is. I don't understand your position but that is fine. We'll never coach against one another. So, there is that. LOL
It was a serious question, not a rhetorical one. I was genuinely interested to know if you spent a lot of time and energy discussing their strike zone with umps. I know you coached in HS ball and was curious as to how those conversations went.

A bunch of these folks complaining about leaping not being called because "if it is a rule then it should be called" need to start getting onto these umps about their strike zones being from the belly button tot he knees. That is, if they are genuinely interested in having the game called "by the book". Otherwise they are just picking and choosing what they want enforced.
 

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,854
113
It was a serious question, not a rhetorical one. I was genuinely interested to know if you spent a lot of time and energy discussing their strike zone with umps. I know you coached in HS ball and was curious as to how those conversations went.

A bunch of these folks complaining about leaping not being called because "if it is a rule then it should be called" need to start getting onto these umps about their strike zones being from the belly button tot he knees. That is, if they are genuinely interested in having the game called "by the book". Otherwise they are just picking and choosing what they want enforced.
First, I am well known in my area and can talk to most all umpires. If I had a problem with either the zone or someone leaping, I will have a very brief discussion with the umpire. During a game, I think that if I get too involved with arguing with an umpire about a pitcher leaping, I help give that pitcher an advantage. So, I'll mention it maybe 3 times and coach the game. It is the same with any rule. That conversation most likely will come up again with that umpire before the game if we play that team again and face that pitcher. I'll gladly do that in front of the other coach. I'm not bashful.

Per the rulebook, if umpires, coaches ... all create their own rules, the game is watered down.
 
Nov 20, 2020
995
93
SW Missouri
Do you do it when your players are batting?

In serious.... I try NOT to do it in either setting. In league this year there was an umpire who called upper chest/lower neck pitches a strike as long as it was down the middle. Those situations I contested because it was blatantly wrong. Not that it helped.

Otherwise no, I typically do not. Sometimes I’ll ask for a talk in between innings and ask how said umpire is “seeing it” in regards to the edges of the plate. Different umpires take different sight angles so it changes. Maybe it helps maybe it doesn’t. It’s more for our pitchers so they can try to make better adjustments.

I grew up playing hockey where rules are very often subjectively called. And I was taught to play through it/around it. Those were the rules “that day”. As long as the calls were consistent it was okay.

So that’s how I view the strike box. As long as the umpire is consistent through the game/tournament then I’m fine with it being somewhat subjective.


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Mar 10, 2020
734
63
It was a serious question, not a rhetorical one. I was genuinely interested to know if you spent a lot of time and energy discussing their strike zone with umps. I know you coached in HS ball and was curious as to how those conversations went.

A bunch of these folks complaining about leaping not being called because "if it is a rule then it should be called" need to start getting onto these umps about their strike zones being from the belly button tot he knees. That is, if they are genuinely interested in having the game called "by the book". Otherwise they are just picking and choosing what they want enforced.
The strikezone is not a rule being broken by a player.
 

radness

Possibilities & Opportunities!
Dec 13, 2019
7,270
113
I’m far from an expert. Just relaying what I’ve found.

As far as the rules discussion is concerned....if thems the rules then thems the rules. Call it as an umpire and/or protest it as a coach. But how you address it at 8u vs HS or TB are two entirely different situations. If a girl is playing high school and still intentionally leaping/crow hopping then she deserves the IP call. She knows better. Or should know better. Again, dragging the foot is not that hard to remember or make happen. Doing it efficiently is what’s hard. Obviously there’s plenty of elite pitchers who are lights out and toe drag within the rules.

I’ve never umpired, but comparing enforcement of leaping/crow hopping to enforcing the strike zone isn’t the same to me. Enforcing the drag foot is so much easier to do. It’s easier to see and measure. Definitely more black and white. Crow hopping even more so.

We played a game against a pitcher who’s drive foot would actually come forward off the rubber right as she launched. More of a slip. I (as an AC) didn’t read it as intentional and advised the HC as such. He caught it before I did. Did give her an advantage? Maybe. I didn’t think so. We didn’t say anything. Would it have mentally messed her up had we made something out of it? Maybe. But it was 12u rec league and our girls were hitting her fine. Not the same as a leap or crow hop. But, more towards the situational part of the discussion.


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Good read! Several valid points!

Can remember when i was in high school became a Bobby Sox umpire. (city league/rec) There were several rules a lot of people didnt know. Some things were just myths people thought were rules. It was really a neat experience for me. To evaluate a game situation and determine best course of action. Because sometimes people didnt know better & kids were just being goofy little kids, who didnt know better
Aka= learning moments
Yet i still had to make the call!

Somewhere in the mix is a resonsibilty to get it right...apply the way the game is structured to be played.
By all.

It may not require an illegal pitch every pitch in say 10u.
However pointing it out is a requirement.
Then the player has knowledge of it.
Umpires dont always know if a pitcher just started or have been warned by several previous umpires...or maybe no umpire cared to mention it befor.

*Some consistancy by umpires on this would atleast show support of its importance.

Perhaps if all coaches had a clue how to help pitchers...or cared to play by the rules,
this wouldnt be as directly important for the umpires to need to be involved.

If a coach was telling a batter step out of the box when hitting the ball.
And the umpire called the batter out for doing so.
It could be a learning moment!
Or what they were doing was intentional and simply got caught.
 
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