USSSA Florida (and most of the others to be honest) have precluded Phase 1/10 people for tournaments... But they have all basically said Phase 2 and they are ready to go.
USSSA Post Covid-19 Return-to-play guidelines
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USSSA Florida (and most of the others to be honest) have precluded Phase 1/10 people for tournaments... But they have all basically said Phase 2 and they are ready to go.
Which midwest states formed an alliance?
I am in Illinois. Indiana has a very different plan in place than Illinois. Iowa, and Illinois seem to be handling the problem very different also.
Illinois seems to have no plan at all moving forward. Pritzker's only plan is "do as I say, not as I do". Pritzker wife goes on a vacation to their ranch in Florida while he tells all Illinois residents to not leave their house unless necessary.
I’m Illinois too. Here’s a link. 7 states, but again, they all seem to have different plans
www.chicagobusiness.com
Midwest governors form COVID coalition
Gov. J.B. Pritzker and his regional colleagues are working together to judge when best to start easing stay-at-home restrictions and reopen their states’ economies.
www.chicagobusiness.com
- May 29, 2015
- 3,794
- 113
That is my biggest issue though. Many of these things are pretty cockamamie, but the real issue is that there is NO enforcement. Tournaments rarely enforced behavior-based rules before, for fear of chasing off dollars ... I mean coaches, parents, and teams. Why is there any expectation that any of this would work?
Most localities are suffering because NOBODY wants to enforce the protections that are put in place. Local police departments, local district attorneys, county sheriffs' departments ... most have said "meh, we aren't going to enforce it."
So then it should be up to the local business or organization right? My personal experience right now is at 50% for the REQUIRED mask order in Illinois that went into effect two days ago. Props to Menards for not letting people in without a facemask. Thumbs down to Hy-Vee whose employee said "Yes, they are supposed to be wearing them, but I'm not a security guard. What am I supposed to do?"
(My response was "Don't let them in, as is the requirement of the Governor's executive order and the Illinois Department of Public Health."
That garnered the response of a rocket scientist walking by who said "Not letting them in would be a violation of HIPAA laws!"
Oh sweetie. Bless your heart.
)Honestly, I think I am at the phase of saying "to heck with it". If you don't care, why should I? Have at it. Society has proven that we are selfish, gluttonous pigs with no respect or care for fellow human beings. It's time to let it burn itself down.
- May 29, 2015
- 3,794
- 113
I thought Pritzker laid out a multi-phase plan a few weeks ago. The problem is we are still in the wait and see phase because our numbers are not going down. They have plateaued some, but we have been constantly at our high point of 100+ deaths per day for the last week or so.
Unfortunately he is starting to kowtow to political pressure though. As if the idiot with the Nazi sign protesting yesterday wasn't enough. The mess is coming. It will get better and then get worse.
And yes, our coalition seems to be worthless.
Have we figured out when his wife went down to Florida with his daughter? I can't seem to find anything indicating if it was recent or if she had been there for quite a while. He handled that very poorly.
TMIB-here's the issue. How far does the Hy-Vee employee take it? Banks and most retail stores corporate training is to NOT confront but to comply with the "bad guys" and not to stop or to chase. At what point would you draw the line for the employee to intervene or not?
Hiring security or armed security for every retail location is not a viable alternative too.
We're relying on healthy Americans who have dutifully fulfilled their end of the bargain and went into quarantine by dutifully agreeing to go into lock down all while we crashed an economy. And for the most parts most Americans have. However, compliance with the Exectutive Orders is not a sign of agreement.
And depending on who you want to believe, in the professional ranks, the "danger" of the virus, the right PPE, the right courses of action are extremely divergent.
How can you go out on a row boat but not a motor boat?
How can in adjoining states it be OK to go fishing in one but not the other, when the river divides the two states?
How can it be called ESSENTIAL TRAVEL only with the threat of fines if not on essential travel, yet teachers can go on parade through neighborhoods to wave to students? That's not essential.
So I think you are witnessing three things.
1) There is an incredible amount of hypocrisy between the "orders" and what is enforced or actually done by even the leaders (our Governor had her hair done but closed all salons....)
2) The information on how deadly, or not, the virus is to different segments of the population is continually changing and really for the better.
3) "orders" that don't make sense. If it's so BAD, why is Costco just now requiring masks in stores starting tomorrow. If it was so bad...that should have been an almost immediate requirement.
4) Many professionals are now believing the virus has been her longer and infected many more than previously believed.
So from those 4 things alone, many people are making a decision to move on with living.
Yes there's the knucklehead that the news picks out who is the dumb rear....but most people are being reasonable and responsible.
But at the end of the day. Fear does not stop death, but it does stop life.
Waiting until it's safe...means never.
EDIT: So end of day who is going to "enforce" guidelines and recommendations at softball games/tourn?
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- May 29, 2015
- 3,794
- 113
Good reply Chris, and thank you for trying to restore some of my faith in humanity.
I'll apologize because I know people are sick of hearing me drone on. I think I'm going to head off on another temporary "self-imposed" exile after this.
You don't need security or armed guards. Just like I saw Menards do ... you just say no. That is perfectly within the rights (and expectations) of the store. When the person becomes confrontational or threatens the employee, you call the police and they need to respond appropriately (see the failure in Oklahoma City). You don't necessarily need to enforce wearing masks, but you do need the police to intervene and support store personnel when morons are threatening physical violence. Instead, OKC has a mayor giving in to bullies and potentially endangering citizens he is sworn to serve and protect.
Pre-pandemic, the signs said "No shirts, no shoes, no service." You didn't need armed guards to enforce it. There is more of a health-dependent reason to include "no masks" in that same expectation.
You do NOT have a RIGHT to shop anywhere. No business has to serve you. They cannot discriminate against you, but they absolutely can refuse service to you for failing to follow the rules.
Absolutely. I do not comply because I agree. I comply because I still care about my community and my fellow human beings. That is waning though.
Edited for space, but I understand the conundrum. The Feds punted when they should have been providing leadership. Now you have 50 different people who are NOT qualified to make these decisions. Some are doing the right thing and listening to experts who are doing their best. Some think they are qualified and are flying by the seat of their pants.
1.) Definitely. And I hope voters remember the response -- good, bad, hypocritical, and everything in between -- from their elected officials and act accordingly. Our Governor was earning some respect from me (I didn't vote for him) until he had a little tantrum when asked why his wife is out of state and when she left.
2.) There is a lot that changes because this is a virus that we have not dealt with before. That is to be expected as our experts learn about it. The real problem was the politicians and pundits who have NO knowledge or expertise muddying the water. Now the public thinks this is a cold or flu virus that we should know everything about. It is from the same family, but it is not something we have seen before. Even when we get something concrete, some medically unqualified cable network, talk show host, or elected official goes out and tries to smear the truth. Use some common sense, filter out the politically ideological crap.
3.) I would say "Why now?" is a legitimate question. And it has a legitimate answer that politicians don't want to say: BECAUSE PEOPLE COULDN'T ACT RESPONSIBLY BEFORE. Whether that is hording medical-grade supplies needed in hospitals or out of consideration to others on the street. We couldn't manage to be responsible on our own, so now it is a requirement. Same reason for any new rule in a sport or law in a state. The other failing I see with masks is the lack of proper explanation of what masks do and who they actually protect.
4.) That is pretty common knowledge that has been around for a long time. You don't magically "have it" when your first case of an unknown virus shows up. Just like the "new cases" reported each day are not actually "new cases" ... they are positive tests.
I don't expect eradication of the virus before we hold a softball tournament. I do expect we reach a point that I can comfortably go with a reasonable expectation that I am not going to end up infecting hundreds of other people and potentially killing my (or your) immuno-compromised daughter, her grandparents, and possibly myself.
Maybe we are at that point in your area. I can tell you we aren't at that point in my area. My fear is that MOST of the country has not experienced a major outbreak, so we are being lulled into a false sense of complacency where we will open up and then the hot spots will spread it to every neck of the woods. The virus itself is not good, but it overwhelming outbreaks that are the real danger.
A softball tournament really is the worst of every world right now. Hundreds or thousands of people who have traveled from all over the place to pack together in a small area, and then travel back to their home state/county and track anything they encounter the whole time.
If your area is "safe" then play those local friendlies. Large tournaments are just a bad idea still.
Vigilance does not equate to fear.
I'll apologize because I know people are sick of hearing me drone on. I think I'm going to head off on another temporary "self-imposed" exile after this.
You don't need security or armed guards. Just like I saw Menards do ... you just say no. That is perfectly within the rights (and expectations) of the store. When the person becomes confrontational or threatens the employee, you call the police and they need to respond appropriately (see the failure in Oklahoma City). You don't necessarily need to enforce wearing masks, but you do need the police to intervene and support store personnel when morons are threatening physical violence. Instead, OKC has a mayor giving in to bullies and potentially endangering citizens he is sworn to serve and protect.
Pre-pandemic, the signs said "No shirts, no shoes, no service." You didn't need armed guards to enforce it. There is more of a health-dependent reason to include "no masks" in that same expectation.
You do NOT have a RIGHT to shop anywhere. No business has to serve you. They cannot discriminate against you, but they absolutely can refuse service to you for failing to follow the rules.
Absolutely. I do not comply because I agree. I comply because I still care about my community and my fellow human beings. That is waning though.
Edited for space, but I understand the conundrum. The Feds punted when they should have been providing leadership. Now you have 50 different people who are NOT qualified to make these decisions. Some are doing the right thing and listening to experts who are doing their best. Some think they are qualified and are flying by the seat of their pants.
1.) Definitely. And I hope voters remember the response -- good, bad, hypocritical, and everything in between -- from their elected officials and act accordingly. Our Governor was earning some respect from me (I didn't vote for him) until he had a little tantrum when asked why his wife is out of state and when she left.
2.) There is a lot that changes because this is a virus that we have not dealt with before. That is to be expected as our experts learn about it. The real problem was the politicians and pundits who have NO knowledge or expertise muddying the water. Now the public thinks this is a cold or flu virus that we should know everything about. It is from the same family, but it is not something we have seen before. Even when we get something concrete, some medically unqualified cable network, talk show host, or elected official goes out and tries to smear the truth. Use some common sense, filter out the politically ideological crap.
3.) I would say "Why now?" is a legitimate question. And it has a legitimate answer that politicians don't want to say: BECAUSE PEOPLE COULDN'T ACT RESPONSIBLY BEFORE. Whether that is hording medical-grade supplies needed in hospitals or out of consideration to others on the street. We couldn't manage to be responsible on our own, so now it is a requirement. Same reason for any new rule in a sport or law in a state. The other failing I see with masks is the lack of proper explanation of what masks do and who they actually protect.
4.) That is pretty common knowledge that has been around for a long time. You don't magically "have it" when your first case of an unknown virus shows up. Just like the "new cases" reported each day are not actually "new cases" ... they are positive tests.
I don't expect eradication of the virus before we hold a softball tournament. I do expect we reach a point that I can comfortably go with a reasonable expectation that I am not going to end up infecting hundreds of other people and potentially killing my (or your) immuno-compromised daughter, her grandparents, and possibly myself.
Maybe we are at that point in your area. I can tell you we aren't at that point in my area. My fear is that MOST of the country has not experienced a major outbreak, so we are being lulled into a false sense of complacency where we will open up and then the hot spots will spread it to every neck of the woods. The virus itself is not good, but it overwhelming outbreaks that are the real danger.
A softball tournament really is the worst of every world right now. Hundreds or thousands of people who have traveled from all over the place to pack together in a small area, and then travel back to their home state/county and track anything they encounter the whole time.
If your area is "safe" then play those local friendlies. Large tournaments are just a bad idea still.
Vigilance does not equate to fear.
radness
Possibilities & Opportunities!
- Dec 13, 2019
- 7,270
- 113
This is the conundrum!That is my biggest issue though. Many of these things are pretty cockamamie, but the real issue is that there is NO enforcement. Tournaments rarely enforced behavior-based rules before, for fear of chasing off dollars ... I mean coaches, parents, and teams. Why is there any expectation that any of this would work?
Most localities are suffering because NOBODY wants to enforce the protections that are put in place. Local police departments, local district attorneys, county sheriffs' departments ... most have said "meh, we aren't going to enforce it."
So then it should be up to the local business or organization right? My personal experience right now is at 50% for the REQUIRED mask order in Illinois that went into effect two days ago. Props to Menards for not letting people in without a facemask. Thumbs down to Hy-Vee whose employee said "Yes, they are supposed to be wearing them, but I'm not a security guard. What am I supposed to do?"
(My response was "Don't let them in, as is the requirement of the Governor's executive order and the Illinois Department of Public Health."
That garnered the response of a rocket scientist walking by who said "Not letting them in would be a violation of HIPAA laws!"
Oh sweetie. Bless your heart.
Honestly, I think I am at the phase of saying "to heck with it". If you don't care, why should I? Have at it. Society has proven that we are selfish, gluttonous pigs with no respect or care for fellow human beings. It's time to let it burn itself down.
Thanku for bringing discussion to it!
(Everyone, please stay on topic, and the topic is *SOFTBALL*.)
I think people are missing the point about safety. It is not enough to have @texasheat satisfied...you've got to have Sally's mom, the ICU nurse, happy, or Sally ain't playing. And, if Sally ain't playing, or she stops playing, then it is over.
You say, "They didn't enforce the rules last year..." and you are right. But, in the past, people would laugh it off if the bathrooms were disgraceful. That isn't going to happen now. So, someone had best figure it out now.
In order to have a single game, you have to have roughly 40 adults (9*2*2 + 4) agree that the conditions are safe...otherwise no game.
To have even a modest tournament of 16 teams, you'll need more than 500 adults to agree that the entire tournament is safe....playing field, toilets hotels, restaurants. If even one pair of parents, or, in some cases, one parent, decides that the tournament isn't safe, then the team is over, and the whole tournament is toast.
The real question is what can the tournament directors do to make the parents feel safe. And, I'm telling, you four porta potties for 50 teams isn't going to do it,
I think people are missing the point about safety. It is not enough to have @texasheat satisfied...you've got to have Sally's mom, the ICU nurse, happy, or Sally ain't playing. And, if Sally ain't playing, or she stops playing, then it is over.
You say, "They didn't enforce the rules last year..." and you are right. But, in the past, people would laugh it off if the bathrooms were disgraceful. That isn't going to happen now. So, someone had best figure it out now.
In order to have a single game, you have to have roughly 40 adults (9*2*2 + 4) agree that the conditions are safe...otherwise no game.
To have even a modest tournament of 16 teams, you'll need more than 500 adults to agree that the entire tournament is safe....playing field, toilets hotels, restaurants. If even one pair of parents, or, in some cases, one parent, decides that the tournament isn't safe, then the team is over, and the whole tournament is toast.
The real question is what can the tournament directors do to make the parents feel safe. And, I'm telling, you four porta potties for 50 teams isn't going to do it,
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TMIB,
You're right. Vigilance is important. Taking unnecessary risks is not wise.
Everyone's threshold for that is different.
You can go to time out if you want.
Humanity is not as bad as it seems at times. Knuckleheads are everywhere. We have retail establishments. Had a customer tell cashier "I can't find hand sanitizer so I have a different solution" She said "really?" He said " I've been using easy off oven cleaner....it tingles a little but I'm sure the virus is dead and Easy Off is readily available" The SCARY thing was he was serious.
We will NOT be using Easy Off on softballs to sanitize them.
You've made some excellent points about the overall situation.
We may agree on some and disagree on others.
Looking forward to getting back to softball and rules questions.
OT: I appreciate you and other Blues who have chimed in on rules here. I read, reread rule books but still miss things or forget. Yours and others contribution to rules understanding has been valuable to me.
