USSSA # of outs mistake ruling

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Apr 22, 2015
71
8
This was an 18u State tournament, late innings in a 2-1 game, and here is the situation. We have runners on 2nd & 3rd with 1 out. Batter grounds out to SS, runner from 3rd scores. As first baseman catches the ball the defensive team starts yelling in joy and tells the girls to hustle to the dugout. They roll the ball to the pitchers rubber and head for the dugout. Seeing this my runner from 2nd, who was already on 3rd, heads for home and also scores. Here is where it gets interesting, home plate umpire has that there were 2-outs, base umpire is a fairly new umpire and has the correct 1 out on her clicker, except she sees the home plate tap his forearm indicating there was 2-outs so she changed her clicker, without asking first about their discrepancy in outs. So home plate umpire goes to defensive team, who was also the home team, since that is official score keeper and they say yes they only had it as 2 outs also. Home plate umpire comes to me and says that he is not going to allow the runner from 2nd to score because of the miscommunication, but that he wants to talk with the UIC first and see what their opinion is. UIC gets involved and they determine that both runners have to go back to 2nd & 3rd and the ground ball out was just a dead ball out and told me that was the only fair thing to do. I argued that they at least had to give me the runner from 3rd for scoring. But to no avail. So the opposing team made a mistake, the umpiring crew made a mistake and yet we were punished for it 🤷🏼‍♂️ Any other umpires want to chime in on this call that was made, or how you would have handled it??
 
Aug 29, 2011
2,581
83
NorCal
Not an umpire but I'd have gone ballistic if that was the ruling. Your team should not be punished for the other team not knowing the number of out.
I could understand since the HP ump thought that was the 3rd out he may have called dead ball time which might have resulted in your 2nd runner being returned to 3rd with 2 outs. But I see no way the defense gets the benefit of the out and your runners don't get the benefit of advancing.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
If it wasnt the umpire that told the defense there were 2 outs then all play should stand. If the umpire did screw up then I can understand them not allowing the runner from 2nd to score, but I think the UIC was making crap up with his ruling. It is the defenses responsibility to know how many outs there are and their own scorekeeper know how many outs there were.
 
Apr 22, 2015
71
8
The umpires never said how many outs there were, because if they had I would have said no there was only 1-out because I knew how many outs had been made
 
Apr 22, 2015
71
8
Also their score keeper did know and had the correct amount of outs down. Because they were considered the official scorekeeper for that game.
With the circumstance that took place I can understand if they wanted my runner from 2nd to go back to 3rd instead of scoring, but how in the world do you not allow the runner from 3rd to score and just deem it a dead ball out and both runners have to go back to their original bases
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
As I said, the uic just made up a bunch of crap. If the umpire never told the defense the wrong number of outs then the screw up was entirely on them and both runners should have scored.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Aug 25, 2019
1,066
113
Well, first off, umpires do not have to call out how many outs there are (I guess they do have to call the 3rd out if everyone is still standing around) But if a coach asks how many outs, the umpire must tell him/her. Now in your scenario, if the other coach asked the umpire prior to that play how an outs and the umpire mistakingly said two, then I agree with the ruling and it would be because of the umpires mistake. But if the coach didn't inquire on how many outs before the play, it should of standed the way it played out, two runs for you.
 

inumpire

Observer, but has an opinion
Oct 31, 2014
277
43
This was an 18u State tournament, late innings in a 2-1 game, and here is the situation. We have runners on 2nd & 3rd with 1 out. Batter grounds out to SS, runner from 3rd scores. As first baseman catches the ball the defensive team starts yelling in joy and tells the girls to hustle to the dugout. They roll the ball to the pitchers rubber and head for the dugout. Seeing this my runner from 2nd, who was already on 3rd, heads for home and also scores. Here is where it gets interesting, home plate umpire has that there were 2-outs, base umpire is a fairly new umpire and has the correct 1 out on her clicker, except she sees the home plate tap his forearm indicating there was 2-outs so she changed her clicker, without asking first about their discrepancy in outs. So home plate umpire goes to defensive team, who was also the home team, since that is official score keeper and they say yes they only had it as 2 outs also. Home plate umpire comes to me and says that he is not going to allow the runner from 2nd to score because of the miscommunication, but that he wants to talk with the UIC first and see what their opinion is. UIC gets involved and they determine that both runners have to go back to 2nd & 3rd and the ground ball out was just a dead ball out and told me that was the only fair thing to do. I argued that they at least had to give me the runner from 3rd for scoring. But to no avail. So the opposing team made a mistake, the umpiring crew made a mistake and yet we were punished for it 🤷🏼‍♂️ Any other umpires want to chime in on this call that was made, or how you would have handled it??
Umpires screwed up......UIC screwed up even more. It is the defensive teams responsibility to know how many outs.
YOU WIN!!!
they should go back to umpiring 101 and start over,,
 
Aug 30, 2014
77
8
Central Ohio
The ruling by the UIC was completely incorrect. I’m not sure how in the world he would allow the defense to record an out but not allow your runners to advance since that is what happened? Some one else said they would have went ballistic, that is an understatement and then some.
 
Feb 3, 2011
1,880
48
If we're going to make stuff up, let's at least make it make sense, so that everyone is a little upset at the outcome: BR out, R1 scores, R2 sent back to 3B. 2 out, play ball.
 

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