Uppercut Swing

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

May 12, 2008
2,214
0
Taking one question at a time, the difference between 14 and 19 is a matter of timing. Initiating the swing like #18 is a bad thing. Tightening the radius of the curved hand path late in the swing to adjust for an inside pitch location like Ortiz in this clip is a good thing.
 
May 12, 2008
2,214
0
In 16 the hitter is pushing straight forward late in the swing. This is one form of disconnection from the rotating shoulders rather than figuring out how to transfer the energy of the rotating shoulders into the bat. In 19 the hitter on the right is maintaining the connection. The difference in terms of hand position at any given point may be small but the effect is huge.
 
May 12, 2008
2,214
0
I thought the body rotates while the hands travel on a linear motion to the ball. Should they remain the same distance from the body/shoulder and therefore come through in a curved motion such as what the shoulder does?

Your last question is pretty close. Though the hands may drift out early or pull in late dependent on pitch location the bat, through the hands and arms, should remain connected to the momentum of the rotating shoulders on a pitch where the batter is not fooled. When fooled, you do whatever have to or can. For learning to feel this while working on a middle middle location, yeah your second sentence above would be spot on. Connect well with good rotation and you should feel the bat whip out late in the swing into contact.

As always, compare everything I say to slow motion video of the best both for truth checking and for checking to see if you and I are communicating.
 
May 7, 2008
977
0
San Rafael, Ca
Scummer said:


"I thought the body rotates while the hands travel on a linear motion to the ball. Should they remain the same distance from the body/shoulder and therefore come through in a curved motion such as what the shoulder does?"

In my opinion, this is an accurate description of the high level/mlb hitting pattern.

The basic pattern is best described in the golf literature by Jim Hardy as a "2 plane" pattern.

the hands are controlling the swing of the bat in one plane, overall controlling the creation of a matching swing plane to create as long an effective "contact zone" intersecting the path of the pitch as is possible.

at the same time, the hips turn the body in a more level plane, synched with the up/down arm or hands plane.

when you execute the "GO" decision, the fact that the upper and lower boyd are working in different planes enables a controlled stretch and fire of the torso/middle to power the bathead trajectory which the hands, as point of control (hands controlling feel of bathead) are setting up.

the way this works is easier t feel in the golf swing becasue the golf swing uses a much longer upper body arm swing lever to provide power and accuracy.

this is not possibly in hitting where yo need a shorter quicker swing that is adjustable on the fly.

the mlb hitting pattern uses the same "2 plane" principles, but one with major differences which create a "hands and hips" swing as opposed to the "arms and hips" of the 2 plane golf swing.

for the mlb pattern, this 2 plane context is important in answering/commenting on scummer's remark:



"I thought the body rotates while the hands travel on a linear motion to the ball. Should they remain the same distance from the body/shoulder and therefore come through in a curved motion such as what the shoulder does?"

I would say the hands and shoulders are working to rotate the bathead by torquing the handle of the bat between the hands using a combinaion of arm action,forearm twist and scap (shoulder) tilt while the hips are turning the body in a more level plane.

this allows the hands to stay back as the bat turns which resists opening with the hips so the hand controlled action can produce a matching bathead trajectory in a swing plane that has a long contact zone which can be adjusted late/on the fly to accomodate larger timing error for square contact.

as a result of the "GO" decision, the barrell turns more between the hands (seen as blur of bat back toward catcher on 30 fram per sec video) as the shoulders TILT which keeps the hands back with the rear shoulder initially.

so the bat and the hips are both rotating in different planes which controls how/when the middle stretches between the upper and lower body.

the hands do not come away from the back shoulder until this stretch reverses and "connection' is establlished.

then the first thing that swings out is the bathead which has already gotten a running start as the back forearm lowers/some extension occurs at the back elbow.

next the torso untwists rapidly which starts the lead wrist unhinging (adducting). then the lead forearm may or may not start unhinging while the lead elbow/arm stay connected to the decelerating torso. (connection alos requires the scaps to stay pinched/pinching, so scap/shoulder action is a combo/sequence of pinch (mainly back scap)/TILT/clamp/pinch(front scap may pinch on approach to contact for inside location). scaps need to retain pinch/load until contact.

so the hands stay at the shoulder until the torso uncoils/unloads, then they come away from the back shoulder by some extension at the elbows as the lead elbow turns with the torso, then there is the effect of the segmented deceleration of torso, then forearms as bathead accelerates poweredby segment/momentun transfer.

so you can think of swing as lower body rotation (hips) and linear upper body (hands/arms extend in a 2D plane when bathead fires) as is traditional in baseball, OR you can think of it as overlapping upper and lower rotations (turning bat at handle/bathead rotating as hips turn open).
 
May 12, 2008
2,214
0
Note to readers. Haven't read the above but I generally disagree with Tom on swing mechanics.
 
Sep 23, 2008
8
0
Thank you both (Mark and Tom). I'm not ignoring your posts - I'm trying to digest them. A lot of info for me to ... ponder.. and go out and try with my own bat. Mark, I understand the disconnection reasoning in #18 now - thx. Still not sure I understand the diff in 14 & 19 - and I don't see how timing is an issue. I could see it being that #19loses the V, or I could see it being that Ortiz is doing it only for an inside pitch while #19 does it as a normal basis for a swing - I just haven't grasped the timing as the reason for one being a good swing vs the other being a bad swing. Ah, unless by 'timing' you mean the pitch selection - not when the hands come through or something like that, but Oritiz's timing to do it was on the inside pitch and the other guy does it all the time? Thank you again.
 
May 7, 2008
977
0
San Rafael, Ca
scummer -


I agree with Mark that we see the MLB swing happening in extremely different ways.

The best way to understand the differences is in the context of the huge difference between one and 2 plane swing patterns, best described in golf by Hardy.

The sequences and positions are hugely different and key areas of the patterns are incompatible and cannot be mixed without making the swing too inconsistent.

a few golf "links":

Testimonials

Hardy & Jacobsen - 05/16/05 - Golf Channel Video

Jacobsen & Hardy - 10/21/03 - Golf Channel Video
 
May 12, 2008
2,214
0
Just got back in the country and the host is down till tomorrow for those clips. Please don't let me forget to answer your question.
 
Jun 20, 2008
235
0
Jan 15, 2009
8
0
Back to the OP's question. I have a girl like that, 13 years old. No amount of yelling, screaming, shoulder tilt, pcr, top hand torque or comparing her to the best in the world will help. A ball is pitched and her first move is down with the hands and swing up. She's a decent pitcher and good outfielder but at the plate she is an almost sure out. The only way she gets a hit is if the pitch is very slow and is coming down almost vertical when it gets to the plate.
I went to a clinic recently where the Mizzou coach talked about a couple of his slappers, one of which was a freshman second team AA. He said that the biggest problem he sees with slappers is their arms are weak and they have trouble hitting down at the ball. He said for girls like this, you really need to strengthen their top hand. My player is a lefty and not a burner but reasonably fast, so I'm turning her into a slapper (she's a lefty anyway). Forcing her to hit down at the ball. I'm also working with her to build strength in her left arm. I hope between the two we can make something of her.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
42,830
Messages
679,478
Members
21,445
Latest member
Bmac81802
Top