Just curious how the experienced umps would handle this situation. First of all, it was a pool game and the games were already behind due to a rain delay, so I was not going to be "that coach" who filed a protest and held up everyone else at 10:00PM. The umpire crew had already been wrong about the tournament rules regarding what was allowed for the batting lineup and clearly hadn't read the rules the UIC sent out to coaches. At the end of the game our team (home team) had a runner on second and no outs when they called the game due to time expiring. The rules clearly stated that all games were finish the inning. When we told them this they said that wasn't how they were calling the games. When we showed them the rules they stated that wasn't how the games were being called on "this field". If you were shown the tournament rules that showed you were clearly wrong would you change the call? My guess is that most of you would say you would have known the rules prior to the game and it is a moot point, but I'm curious.
Umps- What would you do?
- Thread starter mmeece
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Were you winning and home when time expired? Because in that case they have it right. If it wasn't, then they got it wrong and are probably making up rules so they can go home.
Unless the result didn't really matter for bracket seeding the next day, you should feel free to be "that coach" and protest. It isn't going to take long - even if the UIC isn't at the field or complex, one phone call is going to sort this out in a couple of minutes. It is what he is being paid to handle. It isn't like you have to fill in some form in triplicate.
Seriously as an umpire, if these umpires are out of line and have got it totally wrong I totally encourage you to protest. They make other umpires look bad and people need to call them out. And make sure the UIC knows not to bring them back.
Despite low numbers, I will give our local UICs and umpire rooms credit. If you are not going to do the job properly and show the willingness to learn and get better, you wont be assigned.
Unless the result didn't really matter for bracket seeding the next day, you should feel free to be "that coach" and protest. It isn't going to take long - even if the UIC isn't at the field or complex, one phone call is going to sort this out in a couple of minutes. It is what he is being paid to handle. It isn't like you have to fill in some form in triplicate.
Seriously as an umpire, if these umpires are out of line and have got it totally wrong I totally encourage you to protest. They make other umpires look bad and people need to call them out. And make sure the UIC knows not to bring them back.
Despite low numbers, I will give our local UICs and umpire rooms credit. If you are not going to do the job properly and show the willingness to learn and get better, you wont be assigned.
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10:00 PM? That's really late to be finishing! I don't suppose you were playing in Quakertown Pa., were you? I only ask because I was waiting for rain delayed games to finish at around 10:00 or so, so that I could come on for the Night Owl tournament I was assigned to. Ending one tournament at 10:00 is crazy. Waiting to begin another tournament at 10:30 is just flat out insane!
Absolutely!
- May 29, 2015
- 3,794
- 113
I re-read the OP a couple of times ... whether they were ahead or behind is not stated.
As marriard stated, if you were home and ahead ... correct call. No reason to finish the inning, just like the home team not batting in the final inning if they are ahead in an untimed gamed.
If you were behind ... they were wrong and you should have been “that” coach because your umpire crew was being “that” crew by deliberately not following their instructions (willingly, it seems).
I have worked tournaments where I have not received tournament rules, was told it was “no different that usual”, received incorrect instructions, or received something different than the coaches. ALWAYS check with the UIC and Tournament Director to confirm what a coach is telling you. Never refuse to check any reasonable request.
As marriard said, your recourse is to notify the UIC and TD. Unfortunately, many areas have such a shortage of officials that they can’t just blacklist umpires and not use them. Hopefully that isn’t the case in your area, but odds are it is.
As marriard stated, if you were home and ahead ... correct call. No reason to finish the inning, just like the home team not batting in the final inning if they are ahead in an untimed gamed.
If you were behind ... they were wrong and you should have been “that” coach because your umpire crew was being “that” crew by deliberately not following their instructions (willingly, it seems).
I have worked tournaments where I have not received tournament rules, was told it was “no different that usual”, received incorrect instructions, or received something different than the coaches. ALWAYS check with the UIC and Tournament Director to confirm what a coach is telling you. Never refuse to check any reasonable request.
As marriard said, your recourse is to notify the UIC and TD. Unfortunately, many areas have such a shortage of officials that they can’t just blacklist umpires and not use them. Hopefully that isn’t the case in your area, but odds are it is.
Our team's organization started a game 9:45, lights went out at 10. Head of organization was there and they could get them back on. Apperently lights go off at 10:00. Learn something new every day.
- Nov 29, 2009
- 2,975
- 83
The first question that came to mind was why weren't the rules covered at the plate meeting? Unless it's a friendly, the ground and time limit rules have always been discussed at the plate meeting and lineup exchange.
Thanks for the responses. Should have clarified that we were behind 2 or 3 runs. Had it been a bracket game we would have protested, but there was another game waiting to start and I had some concern that we could have the same umps the next day (they were clearly already unhappy about being called out on the lineup rules).
@testandor We are in Texas, and there were actually games starting at 11PM!
@testandor We are in Texas, and there were actually games starting at 11PM!
- Jun 12, 2015
- 3,848
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Personally I'd get the director if it were something major like that. Stopping a close game early when it's supposed to be finish the inning isn't a close call or a minor rule they don't know, like who you can use for your courtesy runner (we get a different answer to that from different umpires for just about every tournament we play in). It doesn't seem like many of the umpires are reading the tourney packets. The main PGF sanction we play, he sends the packet out no later than Wed and it's 1 page of rules. There's really no excuse, just laziness.
I was talking to a TD about umpires and he said good ones are getting very hard to find. The crazy parents run them out at the younger ages, he said, which I've witnessed enough times myself. Whoever said they can't blacklist them anymore because there aren't enough - that's pretty much what he said, too. We had a tournament this spring where we had one umpire all day. We ended up with a partial refund because it was only supposed to be for pool, everyone was supposed to get 2 in bracket. It was a mess. They said they just couldn't find enough umpires to come and do it.
I was talking to a TD about umpires and he said good ones are getting very hard to find. The crazy parents run them out at the younger ages, he said, which I've witnessed enough times myself. Whoever said they can't blacklist them anymore because there aren't enough - that's pretty much what he said, too. We had a tournament this spring where we had one umpire all day. We ended up with a partial refund because it was only supposed to be for pool, everyone was supposed to get 2 in bracket. It was a mess. They said they just couldn't find enough umpires to come and do it.
That Night Owl tournament last weekend was the most bizarre I've ever attended - as an umpire or as a coach! By the time the daytime tournament ended on Saturday after the rain delay, we started the Qtr-Finals at 10:30, Semi-Finals at Midnight, and the Championship Game - after starting at 1:30 AM - didn't end until 2:45 AM! I was heading home at 3:00 AM, home at 4:00 AM and after a quick shower, was asleep at 4:20. Woke up 90 minutes later to be at another field Sunday morning at 7:20 for 3 games (starting at 8:00), and then a 20 minute drive to yet another field for the last game at 3:20 PM. And that whole weekend started with the pool play on Friday night, which started at 7:00 and ended about 15 minutes before Midnight.
That sure whooped this ump's as*!
Well, off for another hour ride for 3 more starting at 7:30 today. Have a great July 4th!
