Umpires: Lineup card training?

[CHSUmp97]

NSA has (had?)a 'twinning' rule rather a DP/FLEX which allows this. I haven't done NSA in 4 or 5 years so not sure if they still have it. Basically it is 2 players in one spot in the lineup and you could exchange them however you wanted how many times you wanted.

NCAA tried the “twinning” concept one year not too long ago during fall ball just to see how it would work. The fact that it didn’t make it into the rule book for regular season play spoke volumes on its popularity.


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[Westwind]

This is a very interesting discussion. Have had several coaches explain this to me and no two explain it the same.

 

[CHSUmp97]

This is a very interesting discussion. Have had several coaches explain this to me and no two explain it the same.

No offense, but asking coaches to explain the DP/Flex rule is not necessarily a good idea. There are a lot of misconceptions amongst them.

Of course, the same could be said with some umpires. For whatever reason, DP/Flex tends to befuddle a lot of people. I honestly cannot understand why; I've always felt the rule is pretty straightforward. But that's not the case to others.

 

[Westwind]

No offense, but asking coaches to explain the DP/Flex rule is not necessarily a good idea. There are a lot of misconceptions amongst them.

Of course, the same could be said with some umpires. For whatever reason, DP/Flex tends to befuddle a lot of people. I honestly cannot understand why; I've always felt the rule is pretty straightforward. But that's not the case to others.

I agree that asking coaches wasn’t working, lol!

Last weekend I was kind of sneaky. I made 90% of my subs at a time when I could go talk to p/u, pulled out my lineup card and pointed at who I was subbing on my card and looked at how blue did it on his card. What I figured out is 1) that’s a good way to learn, 2) some umps mark their cards meticulously and pretty much like I saw in the online presentation posted above, 3) Some coaches are likely getting away with illegal subs because blue isn’t tracking them.

BTW, one umpire did a nice job with this. He talked through every substitution as I made it and said the result out loud. “#3 Suzy Smith is re-entering in position 4 and #11 Carla Cramer is out of the game and cannot come back in the game...” etc. I really liked that and it helped.

I’m going to get one of those lineup card holders and start tracking it like Blue does at least for the immediate future. We are in an open sub exposure this weekend, so that will have to wait.

 

[corlay]

No offense, but asking coaches to explain the DP/Flex rule is not necessarily a good idea. There are a lot of misconceptions amongst them.

Of course, the same could be said with some umpires. For whatever reason, DP/Flex tends to befuddle a lot of people. I honestly cannot understand why; I've always felt the rule is pretty straightforward. But that's not the case to others.

you would be surprised at the number of D1 players,
now turned coach,
that don't understand the DP/FLEX.

 

[Westwind]

I think more people claim to understand it than actually do.

 

[CHSUmp97]

BTW, one umpire did a nice job with this. He talked through every substitution as I made it and said the result out loud. “#3 Suzy Smith is re-entering in position 4 and #11 Carla Cramer is out of the game and cannot come back in the game...” etc. I really liked that and it helped.

I do something similar now, but I wasn't like that before, and it bit me in the rear.

18 Gold championship game of an ASA tournament a few years ago. Well played, went into the bottom of the seventh with no score. Visiting team's head coach came over during the between-inning warm-ups and said to me from about 15 feet away or so, "Blue, 21 for 11." I pulled out my lineup card, saw that 21 was a legal sub, and wrote her into the batting order replacing 11. I simply said, "Thanks coach," and then went over to the opposing coach to announce the change. We played the bottom of the seventh with no score, so we entered the eighth with the tiebreaker.

Visitors put their runner on second base, and the leadoff batter failed to bunt her over to third. Next batter hit a double to score the game's first run. Home team coach requested Time and called me over with his lineup card out. I went up to him and he said, "Blue, didn't you tell me earlier that their number 21 was entering for number 11?" I looked at my card and verified that's what I had. He then said, "Well, 11 is on second base." I looked at second, and sure enough, that's who was on the base. So I called the visitors coach from the third base coach's box, and asked her, "Coach, I have 21 in as a sub for 11. But 11 just batted. So she's an unreported reentry." She pulled out her card and replied, "No, I said that 21 was entering for 7." I looked at her card and, sure enough, she had 21 in for 7 in another batting order spot. Oh oh.

I called over the tournament UIC who was watching from down the left field line, but I already knew what she was going to tell me. My card was the official card for the game, so 21 was supposed to be in the game for 11, not 7. I had no choice but to tell the visiting head coach that what I had was official, that 11 came back in for 21 unreported, that she was out for batting while being unreported, and that the runner had to return back to second. She argued that she told me 21 was in for 7, but I said that I heard 11, not 7. She mumbled, "Seven, eleven, seven, eleven," as she went back to her coach's box. The visitors ended up not scoring, and the home team scored one in the bottom of the eighth to win the trophy.

Needless to say, I learned my lesson, and I make sure the coach looks at my card as I make their change so that they agree with what I have. No more taking changes from long distance for me.

 

[inumpire]

Yes the flex does have to be on the field or they have left the game and must use a reentry to come back in.

Your example of switching pitchers and the flex goes to the bench, the flex has left the game and must reenter to come back in.

The flex is a defensive position and MUST play defense or they have left the game. I know the dp/flex rule inside and out and I can assure you what you are claiming is not correct and is against the rules.

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This statement is 100% corRectal. If the DP AIS this on the field, they have left the game.

 

[mmeece]

If the DP AIS this on the field, they have left the game.

I' m sure it's just me not getting it, but what does this mean? Particularly the "AIS"

 

[CHSUmp97]

This statement is 100% corRectal. If the DP AIS this on the field, they have left the game.

I cannot understand what you said here, but if you're suggesting that when the DP is on the field, the Flex has left the game, that's not necessarily true. It is only true if the DP enters to play defense for the Flex.

The DP can play defense for any other player, and as long as the Flex is also playing defense, nobody has left the game. The player whom the DP replaced on defense is still in the lineup as a batter only, so the batting order remains the same and the Flex is still playing.