Umpire integrity, Coach integrity

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Feb 20, 2019
109
28
I like to believe every umpire calls every game without prejudice, bias or undue influence. However, I've been around the game far too long to be that naive.

Recently, I heard the opposing team's coach, who also happens to be the league president, quietly ask the home plate umpire to give his team a "generous" strike zone as his team took the field. The umpire complied.

I've seen numerous other calls go in favor of teams whose coaches have prior relationships with the umpires (tournament directors, league directors and/or simply coaches that have been around a while). I've also seen the reverse occur - coaches with a history of arguing or complaining get calls made against them.

Some of the above is simply human nature; you develop a relationship with a coach who is polite, respectful and has demonstrated a clear knowledge of the rules. It stands to reason, that coach is more likely to be listened to when a question is asked than a coach where no prior relationship exists.

My questions for umpires are these:

Have you ever intentionally overturned a call or given preferential treatment to a team based on your relationship with the coach or the coach's position as a league/tournament director? If so, how often?

Have you ever been threatened with, or feared, there would be repercussions if you did not give preferential treatment to a certain team or coach? i.e. If you make bad calls for a certain team, you will be assigned to fewer games.

Have you ever assumed a coach knew a rule better than you and, therefore, overturned your call based on that coach's stating or interpretation of the rule?

My question for coaches is:

Have you ever used your position and/or relationship with an umpire to elicit preferential treatment and/or a ruling that you knew was wrong?
 
Aug 25, 2019
1,066
113
I've only umpired a couple games with a team whose coach I coached with in rec ball. Our DDs on same school team. I didn't give him any undue calls, nor did he expect any. I don't break my integrity for anyone.
 
Mar 1, 2013
404
43
In the “nothing good can come from replying to this thread” category …

As an umpire, I have nothing without my integrity. I don’t even like the appearance of favorable treatment. I have called games for teams my daughters were on and I always told them this at the onset. Never had an issue or a coach bring that up during the game. My kids knew that there would be no mercy and they would have the same strike zone as everyone else. Only had to “pull the bow” on them once (not saying THAT wasn’t a bit over the top though).

You do get to know coaches over time and understand their tendencies. It’s human nature to view an interaction through the lens of past experience. I never hold a past issue against a coach and never treat them better because they were “nice to me”. I do my best to be personable and approachable when calling a game but if a coach is one where we have “history”, I’m not likely to be overly talkative with them beyond the necessary umpire/coach communications. In that situation, both teams get the “terse” version of me so there is no appearance of siding with the “friendly” team.

On the other side - coaches get to know umpires as well. One time I showed up for a community game and I heard an assistant coach say, “put that bat away, this guy checks”.
 
May 29, 2015
3,813
113
Recently, I heard the opposing team's coach, who also happens to be the league president, quietly ask the home plate umpire to give his team a "generous" strike zone as his team took the field. The umpire complied.

...

My questions for umpires are these:

Have you ever intentionally overturned a call or given preferential treatment to a team based on your relationship with the coach or the coach's position as a league/tournament director? If so, how often?

Have you ever been threatened with, or feared, there would be repercussions if you did not give preferential treatment to a certain team or coach? i.e. If you make bad calls for a certain team, you will be assigned to fewer games.

Have you ever assumed a coach knew a rule better than you and, therefore, overturned your call based on that coach's stating or interpretation of the rule?

Comments like that really honk me off. Even if it is a joke, it will always get taken out of context by somebody, so just don't do it. What really honks me off more is when I hear the word "help" directed at me. It is not my job to help you or your pitcher or your team. PS -- you just insulted your team.

No, never. I actually prefer to umpire games where I do not know the people. That's why I like to travel to umpire (Mike, sorry I can't get there this year, I'm hoping for next year!). While most of the guys I work with are what I call "local long-timers", I am not there to socialize and I am not hanging around the fence. I don't care how your Aunt Josephine or your other daughter is doing. I don't care what car problems you are having.

Threatened? No. But there are certain schools that I don't get hired for anymore.

No. Very few coaches know the rules, let alone know them better than me. That isn't me being arrogant either. No, I am not taking a coach's word on a rule. Sorry, but a coach is an extremely biased source and should not be trusted. There is no benefit for a coach to provide a neutral and honest statement. If the discussion is a respectful one, I may be willing to go to my partner OR I will tell the coach "I apologize if I am getting this wrong, but this is my call and I will look it up later." What (I believe) gives me credence is I honestly do it and then try to follow up the next time I see the coach. More importantly, if I was wrong I apologize.
 
Jun 1, 2015
501
43
I started umpiring LL/12U softball in 2006 when I was 16 years old. I've had cousins coach/play in games I've umpired. Never once did they get anything outside of my normal strike zone and they knew it. I'd tell them right to their faces, "On this field, you're not family. Off this field, you are." (injury situations not withstanding).

Fast forward to 2018 when I became a HS/travel umpire - I've had games where girls I previously coached and (at the time) coached were on my field. They got no different treatment than any other player. Even this year - 2021 - 8 of my 15 girls for my rec-level team play for School X's modified team. They were told when we had our first practice, "At practice/in the community, I'm coach. If I'm ever on a game of yours in gear, I'm "blue" or "sir", nothing else." They all understand a job is a job and timing is everything. Now, during practice, they are welcome to inquire about ANYTHING that happened during a game related to RULES but not judgment ("why was this a strike?", "why did you call that fair?", etc.)

I've told my athletes for years, "I will go 0-life before I ever let a girl of mine or myself cheat for one victory." And that's the truth. I'd resign before being told to adjust a strike zone or make any preferential calls in favor of someone just because of their position (truthfully, I'd probably sing a chorus or two of the ol' "four-letter serenade" instead, but that's beside the point).
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,319
113
Florida
Let me shut this down...

I have umpired 10 or so different sports at every single level for over 35 years and watched and played so, so many games in even longer. In all that time, there have been 3 times that I saw an official intentionally go out to favor a team. And only 1 of them was in a contest I was officiating - and I had them removed in the 1st half (it was a basketball game) when I realized what was going on.

That is it.

Just let that sink in. THREE. That is truly how rare it is.
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,319
113
Florida
No. Very few coaches know the rules, let alone know them better than me. That isn't me being arrogant either. No, I am not taking a coach's word on a rule. Sorry, but a coach is an extremely biased source and should not be trusted. There is no benefit for a coach to provide a neutral and honest statement. If the discussion is a respectful one, I may be willing to go to my partner OR I will tell the coach "I apologize if I am getting this wrong, but this is my call and I will look it up later." What (I believe) gives me credence is I honestly do it and then try to follow up the next time I see the coach. More importantly, if I was wrong I apologize.

That is about as well put as possible.
 
Aug 27, 2019
640
93
Lakewood CA.
Good Lord! It is getting so old complaining about officials.

I had a friend who’s DD played on a different soccer team than my daughter. If I saw him I would ask how her team did. Every time they lost the answer would start with “Bro the refs were so bad!”

Sheesh!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
42,866
Messages
680,343
Members
21,525
Latest member
Go_Ask_Mom
Top