Umpire has the count wrong, then what?

[marriard]

A question to the umpires here on how to approach when they have the count wrong (for the purposes of this, assume they definitely have it wrong).

Have a good scorer. Simple as that. If both books agree it the count is different that makes it all easy.

If you come out and say 'my book has the count as 3-1 not 2-2' that should be enough to get any reasonable plate umpire to go through verifying the count. And as a coach you should insist they do if they do not - it is not unreasonable or hard for the PU to review the count in his mind, ask his partner for their count and check scorebooks.

 

[Rick M]

One thing I would recommend (and an issue I have in the case play presented) ... don’t wait a pitch or two to see if it works out in your favor and then ask for it be corrected after it doesn’t.

Should the HP umpire absolutely being giving the count before each pitch? In my experience, some do and some don't. The ones who don't will signal a count every two or three pitches. As I said earlier, I'm usually doing GameChanger so I pay close attention to the umpire giving the count to make sure I've got it right. I love the guys who give a hand signal and a loud call-out of the count before each pitch.

 

[CHSUmp97]

Should the HP umpire absolutely being giving the count before each pitch? In my experience, some do and some don't. The ones who don't will signal a count every two or three pitches. As I said earlier, I'm usually doing GameChanger so I pay close attention to the umpire giving the count to make sure I've got it right. I love the guys who give a hand signal and a loud call-out of the count before each pitch.

We are taught that we should announce the count when the next pitch can result in either a walk or strikeout, and/or when something has happened that affects the pace of play (pitch eludes the catcher, ball was fouled off, catcher made a play on a runner, someone is given Time to conference, etc.) We really shouldn't need to give the signal and verbal after each pitch since it should be easy to stay aware of the count when the ball goes from the catcher right back to the pitcher for the next pitch.

 

[marriard]

We are taught that we should announce the count when the next pitch can result in either a walk or strikeout, and/or when something has happened that affects the pace of play (pitch eludes the catcher, ball was fouled off, catcher made a play on a runner, someone is given Time to conference, etc.) We really shouldn't need to give the signal and verbal after each pitch since it should be easy to stay aware of the count when the ball goes from the catcher right back to the pitcher for the next pitch.

^^^^^^^

This though maybe not even that much. We are not commentators or narrators (Things you learn from @Comp and @MTR )

 

[Rick M]

^^^^^^^

This though maybe not even that much. We are not commentators or narrators (Things you learn from @Comp and @MTR )

That's the impression I've gotten, and I think most do a good job of it. So in the situation I described earlier, where everyone thought it was strike three, should it be incumbent on the pitcher or catcher to ask for the count if they think it's strike two or ball three but the umpire does not call out the count? Things to teach a young pitcher or catcher...

 

[The Man In Blue]

I will give the count at three pitches (so you are getting 1-2 or 2-1). Then I go again when we reach ball 3 (or strike 2). Then after any “interruption” in the flow (foul ball, passed ball, time out etc.).

If the scoreboard is wrong, that is the ONLY time I will give the count every pitch (until they fix it).

Here’s an odd one ... I have had other umpires tell me not to give the count to a coach if the coach asks ... provide the answer, but do not acknowledge the coach. Instead, give it to everybody like you normally would. Personally I think it is rude not to acknowledge the direct request (unless the coach is doing it to be a pain). Thoughts?

 

[marriard]

I will give the count at three pitches (so you are getting 1-2 or 2-1). Then I go again when we reach ball 3 (or strike 2). Then after any “interruption” in the flow (foul ball, passed ball, time out etc.).

If the scoreboard is wrong, that is the ONLY time I will give the count every pitch (until they fix it).

Here’s an odd one ... I have had other umpires tell me not to give the count to a coach if the coach asks ... provide the answer, but do not acknowledge the coach. Instead, give it to everybody like you normally would. Personally I think it is rude not to acknowledge the direct request (unless the coach is doing it to be a pain). Thoughts?

Yes, when I signal the count, I always signal it to the pitcher.

First, this follows how the count is appropriately shown in the Officials Manual - purposely this lets everyone know, doesn't show any 'favors' given, stops multiple requests, consistency with other signals, etc, etc.

 

[CHSUmp97]

Here’s an odd one ... I have had other umpires tell me not to give the count to a coach if the coach asks ... provide the answer, but do not acknowledge the coach. Instead, give it to everybody like you normally would. Personally I think it is rude not to acknowledge the direct request (unless the coach is doing it to be a pain). Thoughts?

I think that's rather bogus. If a coach asks, I answer; no biggie. Sometimes I'll do so "informally", like "Two-One, coach" or even "Twenty-One" instead of "Two Balls, One Strike". Quick and dirty.

 

[The Man In Blue]

That is a good point I forgot @marriard. If I am giving it to everybody, I always go straight ahead. No twisting, no turning. I get dinged in USA because I won’t rotate.

If it is a coach asking a direct question, I’m giving him a direct answer though. I can understand the perception if it is constant (I which case I am shutting it down), but I find it more professional to answer a direct question with a direct answer. Just my personal opinion on that.

 

[testandor]

I will give the count at three pitches (so you are getting 1-2 or 2-1). Then I go again when we reach ball 3 (or strike 2). Then after any “interruption” in the flow (foul ball, passed ball, time out etc.).

Unless I have an "interruption", I never give the count when it's 2-1, precisely because of the reason you just gave - I'll be giving it again on the next pitch when we'll reach either ball 3 or strike 2.