Types of pitches

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Aug 21, 2008
2,359
113
Mike White told me once, years ago, the best riseball he's seen in college softball was by Alicia Holloway (Arizona?) He said she had tight (and correct) spin.
 
Dec 10, 2015
845
63
Chautauqua County
Fair enough, and you're entitled to your opinion. Call me crazy but I just believe that there are "late bloomers" in pitching.... as if 12 is considered a late bloomer.

I do think it's a fair point though that, it'd different today than yesteryear. There are 1000's of pitching coaches (good and bad) out there who SHOULD be teaching kids correctly. Moreover, teaching them why they are constantly missing inside, or outside or unable to hit their spots. When I was kid, I didn't have that. I just had to figure it out and most of the guys in the men's league didn't know how to teach it either. This is why I put a very special emphasis on the "Why does the ball go this way, that way, high or low" in my opening lessons with kids. If they know why and how it happens, it makes it much easier to fix. If you don't know why you keep throwing inside to RH batters, you won't know how to fix it. But that's just me.

All that said, 12 yrs old is WAYYYY too young to make that kind of prediction on someone's pitching trajectory. I was pitching since I was 8? 9? 10? I don't remember, and I was no where near able to locate it where i wanted at 12., I turned out ok. Also, You have to remember a 12U pitcher can be 11 yrs old. This means she's 1 year removed from pitching with an 11" ball. Even if we're talking about someone 2 years removed, it's still a big difference. And if you don't think there is a BIG difference between an 11" and 12" ball to a young lady.... you have another thing coming. To many of them, with smaller hands in particular, it's like asking them to pitch a basketball. It feels that much bigger. For many kids, it's like starting over. This is a lot of the reason why I won't work on pitches with someone using an 11" ball, even someone who you can see just "has it" and is going to be head and shoulders above her peers.

Bill
Thank you, Bill. We are pretty much in agreement. Yes, there are late bloomers but I think an unbiased observer can tell who is going to make it as a pitcher and who isn't at the 12U age. If I sounded harsh, it wasn't intended. But I think we can agree there are folks out there who continue to take parents' money when they should be being honest. And being honest can mean telling parents, look, my way of teaching your DD isn't working. if you want her to continue working on pitching, she needs to see someone else who can help.
 
Dec 11, 2010
4,713
113
Yeah, so my comment on Barnhill was a pretty solid miss, lol

Not sure where I got that into my head.
 
Aug 21, 2008
2,359
113
Thank you, Bill. We are pretty much in agreement. Yes, there are late bloomers but I think an unbiased observer can tell who is going to make it as a pitcher and who isn't at the 12U age. If I sounded harsh, it wasn't intended. But I think we can agree there are folks out there who continue to take parents' money when they should be being honest. And being honest can mean telling parents, look, my way of teaching your DD isn't working. if you want her to continue working on pitching, she needs to see someone else who can help.

I don't disagree. And yes, sometimes people can read an unintended "tone" when you read an email, text or post on a board. It did sound harsh but, I didn't really think it was meanspirited.

Yes, there are some who will take someone's money and laugh to the bank. I prefer the more honest approach when asked. Every coach has had kids who just aren't very good, period. When I'm asked about this from mom and dad I'll tell them the truth... "She isn't going to pitch for Arizona!". Most of the time they get that and we can have an honest and frank discussion. I wanted to be the World Karate champion but it wasn't in my cards. But, even if the kid looks like she's pitching with the wrong hand and never gets any good, if she LOVES pitching and keeps working her best, I am absolutely going to keep working with that kid trying to help her. I'd never drop a kid who works hard because of her talent level. But I'm also not going to tell her she's bound for glory either.

Bill
 
Apr 28, 2019
1,423
83
Yeah, so my comment on Barnhill was a pretty solid miss, lol

Not sure where I got that into my head.

Like you said your not a pitching guy. It’s a rarity these days when somebody admits they made a mistake.
MAYBE there is hope for you after all WW. 😜
 
Aug 21, 2008
2,359
113
Yeah, so my comment on Barnhill was a pretty solid miss, lol

Not sure where I got that into my head.

I'm not speaking to Barhhill's rise being good or bad, bullet spin or backspin. But I can tell you where you got it in your head, ESPN and Michele Smith They over glamorize every pitcher on TV to the point it's obnoxious. Barnhill seems to have had a great career and did well for her team but, just because a ball goes high doesn't mean it's a riseball. If it did, then everyone playing slowpitch would have a riseball as they throw it high!!!!!!

Bill
 
May 15, 2008
1,913
113
Cape Cod Mass.
This discussion has been about spin vs control. That leaves out something important, speed. Once a pitcher gets the basic mechanics down I add a 'speed' session to the lesson. I tell them to start throwing the ball faster, then faster, then as fast as they can. I always add 'but don't lose your form'. I don't care where the ball goes, just throw it fast. I prefer the word fast over hard, there is a subtle difference. When I take on a new student who has taken lessons from another instructor I always get a chuckle out of the looks they give me when I tell them to 'throw it fast', they're like "really?"
 

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